[TUC Spoilers] Ajokli and the metaphysical whodunit

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BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #180 on: November 01, 2017, 10:12:37 pm »

I don't give a rat's ass about Blind Brain Theory and what not. Crash Space....just don't give a shit. I really don't. And, i won't fake like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to it, either.

That's a blurb, MSJ! If RSB ever publishes his philosophical essays, that's the blurb I want to see on the dust jacket.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 10:29:06 pm by Beardfisher King »
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #181 on: November 01, 2017, 10:18:48 pm »
I think a part of Bakker's unnecessary vagueness comes from needing a better editor.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #182 on: November 01, 2017, 10:30:13 pm »
I think a part of Bakker's unnecessary vagueness comes from needing a better editor.

Agreed, from his Q&A, it appears he expected us to understand more than what we did.
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Rots

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« Reply #183 on: November 02, 2017, 02:07:57 am »
I think a part of Bakker's unnecessary vagueness comes from needing a better editor.

Ha, yeah, especially for TUC in my opinion. The editing was damn near an atrocity tale in its own right.

@Taohorror - it has been literally decades since i played D&D. I went to the desert on my annual trip w/some new guys htis year and there was some talk about starting a new campaign but it died. We're old, significant others, kids, jobs, etc etc. The magic of dice, 3x5 character cards, painted miniatures, grid paper for maps, all the gd peanut butter cups a man can eat + some shitty beer..man, those were the days. Im middle aged and still can remember so sharply the good times i had playing D&D with ppl who cared.

Generally speaking - i am all in with RSB generally. I will buy and read The No God, and think about it. I just dont think its necessary. Id love to see some more short stories that fill in some specific world building here and there. I did not really like TUC at first. But upon a second and third re-read i have come around. I still think it has significant and hurtful blind spots but its already aging well for me.

Redeagl

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« Reply #184 on: November 02, 2017, 09:28:39 am »
The thing is is as Wilshire hit the nail on the head. If you like these books, you like tying together the mysteries and how things work in the world. Another nail on the head, I doubt we'll get a whole lot of clarity on that front.

I'm not a smart dude. I don't give a rat's ass about Blind Brain Theory and what not. Crash Space....just don't give a shit. I really don't. And, i won't fake like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to it, either. The thing is, is Bakker will have missed the $$$'s If he would just give a little resolution. I know he's trying to push his theories and such, but man, this series would be an all time great if he gave us that. He's missing out fellows, not us.

I can deal with it. I see, somewhat, what he is trying to do. I didn't have a bossy and throw the book at the end of TUC, matter of fact I think it took me a few days to even post anything. I needed to process what I just read. Usually, I don't have to do that with a book. So, it could be a good thing. Its all in hiw you digest it. Being a philosophy geek or just a run of the mill fantasy guy, I don't think makes much of a difference processing the end of this book.
Lmao. Though, I still don't understand how could anyone be angry from TUC's ending but, hilarious post, MSJ ;)
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

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Wilshire

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« Reply #185 on: November 02, 2017, 11:35:00 am »

Regarding TNG, there's a good chance you are correct. Those still hoping for a tell-all final installment will probably be disappointed, again, and will probably have a cool little book burning party and feel personally assaulted by the lack thereof - including some people here.

That group will include me, I'm sure. I'll be sure to send you photos of me feeding my copies of TSA into the bonfire.

Nice snark, Wilshire. But I'm pretty used to ambiguous resolutions. Modernism is not exactly a new game, you know. On the level of feeling personally assaulted,  it ranks level with watching a car driving ahead of me with its blinker on for mile after mile. Annoying, but that's life.

Cheers!
Lmao, I always wish there was some way I could tell 'that guy' that his blinker was on.

I was intending to be funny, rather than snarky (might have missed the mark though), and not specifically referring to anyone in particular. In fact, last round we got a handful of people that came, registered, and made a post just so they could have someone to yell at - I expect this will be the case again. Still though, I'd be more surprised if there weren't at least some regulars around here that feel as I have said. Anyways, at least for that first group, I really did sense that some felt a deep, personal betrayal, and just with the blinker guy, I wish there was something I could do to help.

Full disclosure, I don't know what modernism is ;) .
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BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #186 on: November 02, 2017, 12:29:23 pm »

Regarding TNG, there's a good chance you are correct. Those still hoping for a tell-all final installment will probably be disappointed, again, and will probably have a cool little book burning party and feel personally assaulted by the lack thereof - including some people here.

That group will include me, I'm sure. I'll be sure to send you photos of me feeding my copies of TSA into the bonfire.

Nice snark, Wilshire. But I'm pretty used to ambiguous resolutions. Modernism is not exactly a new game, you know. On the level of feeling personally assaulted,  it ranks level with watching a car driving ahead of me with its blinker on for mile after mile. Annoying, but that's life.

Cheers!
Lmao, I always wish there was some way I could tell 'that guy' that his blinker was on.

I was intending to be funny, rather than snarky (might have missed the mark though), and not specifically referring to anyone in particular. In fact, last round we got a handful of people that came, registered, and made a post just so they could have someone to yell at - I expect this will be the case again. Still though, I'd be more surprised if there weren't at least some regulars around here that feel as I have said. Anyways, at least for that first group, I really did sense that some felt a deep, personal betrayal, and just with the blinker guy, I wish there was something I could do to help.

Full disclosure, I don't know what modernism is ;) .

Literary modernism entails, among other things, radical narrative experimentation (multiple POVs, ambiguous resolutions, discontinuous narrative structure, etc.). By now, they're familiar literary devices. Their use in genre fiction is relatively recent, to be sure. And Bakker absolutely raises the stakes by positing an absolutely "unhappy ending" to his saga.

The creation and reading of fictions is deeply personal, and you correctly recognize the real pain some fictions create for their readers. Book-burning....maybe a step too far in dealing with the pain. I just put TUC on the shelf and will leave it there for....who knows, but quite a while. I watched "Memento" one time, and I was so distraught by the protagonist's predicament that I've never watched the movie again.

"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

TaoHorror

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« Reply #187 on: November 02, 2017, 01:57:17 pm »
Memento was more clever than it was good - but still a decent movie. Much bigger fan of Nolan's later work.

I'm a simpleton, I live for the aha moments in stories, love to be surprised and getting screwed over in PON/TUC has been a tasty experience for me.
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

Wilshire

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« Reply #188 on: November 02, 2017, 02:20:11 pm »
Thanks for the exposition, much appreciated.

Probably going way off topic, but BFK, do you ever wonder why you keep coming back? I recall you had a somewhat similar reaction to Neuropath, or at least similar in that it was emotional. I'd not, then, peg you as someone who'd enjoy reading or discussing the books further. Obviously, I'm wrong since you're here and doing just that... But I wonder if you have ever thought about it?
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #189 on: November 02, 2017, 03:37:05 pm »
Aw, he comes back because he digs us! This is the cool corner of the web, be in the in-crowd  :)

Don't chase him away, Wilshire - I like Beard! He was so nice to me when I rejoined back in Spring.
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #190 on: November 02, 2017, 03:51:20 pm »
Thanks for the exposition, much appreciated.

Probably going way off topic, but BFK, do you ever wonder why you keep coming back? I recall you had a somewhat similar reaction to Neuropath, or at least similar in that it was emotional. I'd not, then, peg you as someone who'd enjoy reading or discussing the books further. Obviously, I'm wrong since you're here and doing just that... But I wonder if you have ever thought about it?

"Do I ever wonder why I keep coming back?" I could give a funny answer, but I know exactly why I come back.

1) Bakker writes very engaging fiction, and I'm trying not to let my misgivings concerning his big-picture views get in the way of what is a very vivid and strangely appealing saga. (There's a blurb for you!)

2) As for Neuropath, I consider the antagonist one of the most evil characters ever created. Further, the ideas behind Neuropath are vitally important and need to be challenged and discussed.

So, for me, the Forum is a forward observation post of sorts. I can observe the development of ideas that concern me.

Plus, good people are involved. It's a good place.

Also, what Tao said!

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 03:55:48 pm by Beardfisher King »
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

Wilshire

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« Reply #191 on: November 02, 2017, 03:57:50 pm »
Aw, he comes back because he digs us! This is the cool corner of the web, be in the in-crowd  :)

Don't chase him away, Wilshire - I like Beard! He was so nice to me when I rejoined back in Spring.

Eh, unfortunately I appear to be a permanent blemish to the place ;), so I hope my more inane inquries aren't that off-putting, though I'm sure that's happened on accident.

...

Very cool. You are a fascinating human, please do stick around so I can continue to enjoy your typings.
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BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #192 on: November 02, 2017, 05:06:47 pm »
Aw, he comes back because he digs us! This is the cool corner of the web, be in the in-crowd  :)

Don't chase him away, Wilshire - I like Beard! He was so nice to me when I rejoined back in Spring.

Eh, unfortunately I appear to be a permanent blemish to the place ;), so I hope my more inane inquries aren't that off-putting, though I'm sure that's happened on accident.

...

Very cool. You are a fascinating human, please do stick around so I can continue to enjoy your typings.

Tao and Wilshire, you guys made my day! As is evident, my absence was temporary and entirely due to my disinclination to discuss TSA matters in the immediate aftermath of reading TUC. Heap big medicine in that tome, to be sure.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

TaoHorror

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« Reply #193 on: November 02, 2017, 10:58:51 pm »
I'm so happy to know I wasn't the reason you left - I was hard on you many times, but purely as a joke/entertainment. My "gang" here at home, we super-saturate ourselves with insult humor - the harsher the insult, the greater the love ... so it "seeps" out of me in mixed company from time to time. I won best come back ever with my peeps 20 years ago and still hold the award! I'm so proud!
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

MSJ

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« Reply #194 on: November 03, 2017, 09:14:50 pm »
Quote from:  Redeagl
Lmao. Though, I still don't understand how could anyone be angry from TUC's ending but, hilarious post, MSJ ;)

Redeagl, do live a dream world of bias confirmation? Kellhus was actively trying to save humanity. Did he have to do evil shot to try and accomplish that goal, sure. But, he was for saving humanity, preventing resumption. You're in denial homeboy. But, I still love ya, brother.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,