[Madness]

I remember reading that thread. I didn't realize you thought a deeper read of Hegel pertained there as you somewhat focused a more central interpretation of his writings. The World-Spirit/World-Historical Individuals and manifesting spirit are kind of getting into the meat with him; the Dialectic of History can be looked over possibly, in specific senses like you've done, as much as it most definitely pertains to the stories at large and it's usually applied to broader socioculture and intellectual movements.

But after exams...

[locke]

Honestly?  My Hegel familiarity is at best hazy memories of my first semester of college.  What's funny is that I definitely was jotting down margin notes along the lines of 'this should be applied to fantasy, how do I use this?' when we were skimming over hegel.  So I'm still unsure about that thread other than that it was causing mental bells to ding and flags to wave, so whatever overdetermination I was forcing on the texts is not something I'm rigidly committed too, in part because I have a sneaking suspicion of doubt that I got the philosophy/dialectics all wrong.  still think the "from here to which kellhus" dialectic seems fairly portent, and mirrors the 'watcher watched kellhus' dialectic suggested in other parts of the text.  or maybe that's watcher watched no god'

[Madness]

I have some suspicions that the 'watcher/watched' concept might have more ancient roots.

And your argument might be sound. I don't think anyone has given it a fair chance. Though, simultaneous (meta)physical panpsychism might just be a little far-out for the nerdanels of most.

[Somnambulist]

I don't know if this is a re-tread or not, but... Crackpot time!

Sorweel is the new (metaphorical) Heron Spear.  There's all that pesky business with storks (which are relatives of herons) and Sorweel is being placed (aimed?), so... yeah.  Some literary mumbo jumbo is going on.  Sorweel = Heron Spear.

This concludes the most useless post EVER.  I am done.  Farewell.

Until next time.

[Madness]

I think I've made the most useless post ever before.

I also think that may be an original nerdanel.

[Duskweaver]

Sorweel = Heron Spear.

Some might call that Mantling.

[Wilshire]

Interesting.

from the wiki you posted:

Mantling is a process in the Elder Scrolls universe by which one entity becomes another entity by impersonating it. In most known or speculated instances of this process, the entity being mantled is a deity, while the person mantling is a mortal.
Merely impersonating someone publicly is not enough to mantle them. To mantle someone, you must become so like them that there ceases to be a functional difference between the two entities; it seems that at this point the universe itself ceases to distinguish between the two, and they become one entity.

It seems that while mantling does involve, to some extent, assuming some other entity's identity, this does not appear to necessarily involve giving up the mantler's own identity, at least in full.

[locke]

That's a pretty fucking rad theory.

[Madness]

Pretty cool.

Hm.

Must compute .

[mrganondorf]

I don't know that Yatwer needs Sorwel to *kill* Kellhus, I'm thinking he's going to deliver that chorae at just the right moment to distract Kellhus just when the sword breaks.  IDK.  I'm still wondering if Kellhus hasn't fooled them all.  I'm wondering if whatever it is that the Consult do to produce a synthese, Kellhus would be able to figure out and improve upon.  Nerdaneling, now that I know what it means, Kellhus may be hanging out in a secret room in the Andiamine Heights surrounded by young gnostic sorcerers, producing a perfect replica in the north. 

Diving headlong into crazy pet theories, this is what allows Kellhus to appear as a stork at Sakarpus and this same technique is what saved old moe back in TTT--Cnaiur only killed a dummy.  The twist!  Kellhus is not expecting Kelmomas to find his body, when Kel does, the WLW follows on his heels for the assasination.  Incoherent ramblins.

EDIT: breaking up the text

[Wilshire]

Haha thats an entertaining theory. If the WHite-Luck is supposed to kill Kellhus, he needs to get close enough, so perhaps he is already closer to him than we are lead to believe

I am wondering how you would explain the destruction that Kellhus rains upon the sranc when he rescues the remaining Mandati towards the end of WLW?

[mrganondorf]

It's probably just an indefensible view, but I might hazard that we just have no scale to measure Kellhus on.  I don't know if what he did killing all those sranc was impressive or not.  Can you see the other dunyain smoking, hanging out in shades and black leather jackets, talking about killing one, no two, or maybe three million sranc with just a snap of the fingers if they had the gnosis? 

For all we know, when he falls over in Esmi's arms after warping back is just more acting.  Pretend vulnerability to better maintain possession of the empress (or deceive someone watching).  Really looking forward to some awesome sorcery in UC.  One problem with all this blather is that if Kellhus is so powerful he can just crack the world open whenever he likes, then why bother spending 20 years putting the holy war together.  I have not a clue.  I think many on here have talked about his need for believers in order to ascend to the outside, I can't think of anything better.  Thought myself into a corner, I think.

EDIT: breaking up the text

[Madness]

Can you see the other dunyain smoking, hanging out in shades and black leather jackets, talking about killing one, no two, or maybe three million sranc with just a snap of the fingers if they had the gnosis?

Choked on my coffee.

I have a question. If the White-Luck has existed the whole time, wouldn't it have touched Kellhus at certain moments?

[mrganondorf]

This brain is having trouble understanding the question!

[Madness]

"The White-Luck, the idolaters believe, is that perfect line of action and happenstance that can see any outcome come to pass. The White-Luck Warrior is the man who walks that line. Everything that he needs, happens, not because he wills it but because his need is identical to what happens. Every step, every toss of the number-sticks, is a…" He turned back to the fierce glare of the Yatwerian Mother-Supreme.

"Is a what?" Fanayal demanded.

Meppa shrugged. "A gift."

Where luck is the twist of events relative to mortal hope, White-Luck is the twist of events relative to divine desire.  To worship it is to simply will what happens as it happens.
   —ARS SIBBUL, SIX ONTONOMIES

At some point in Kellhus journey he must certainly have been a "correspondence of cause" acting in concert with "that perfect line of action and happenstance that can see any outcome come to pass" "relative to divine desire."

I'm wondering if this is what happened with the Shrial Knights? Or anything else.