Earwa > The White-Luck Warrior
Nonmen Society
Madness:
I apologize as there are a number of 'Nonmen &' threads around; much of the possible subject matter will overlap here so at some point later I will consolidate the various threads here as well (especially as Auriga might jump on this, having returned).
I want to speculate about the societal organization of the Nonmen pre-Womb Plague.
I was reminded about this in a few paragraphs of The Republic of Thieves and it's something I have thought on for some time now.
My first contention is that Nonmen experienced a rigid-caste system with Quya at the top. Sorcerous ability is in-part hereditary and the Quya are a hereditary caste. High Ainon serves as a metaphor for the Nonmen Mansions. Quya rule.
Also, the Nonmen don't seem to use Chorae. Mind you, we've not seen an Ishroi who isn't also a Quya. But it would make sense that if Quya are nobility and the Chorae were invented and then barred in their civil wars, then Quya rule.
Hrm. I'll see what thoughts accumulate.
I think this is a very important discussion. The Tusk says that Nonmen are False, which isn't true. Also, Nonmen society stumbles over Topoi and (maybe, simultaneously) Damnation. Arguably, only the Quya have to worry about Damnation. Yet all these issues will find themselves central to the events in Ishterebinth in TUC.
Wilshire:
The Nonmen were the ones who banned the Aporos correct? That fits into your theory.
Though I'd like to point out that the Javreh warrior-slaves captains where given chorae.
Cüréthañ:
Outlawing the aporos was a religious edict iirc - its in TTT glossary under chorae or aporos, I think.
That suggests a religious caste that was able to make 'legal' rulings independent of and overiding local kings of mansion.
Likewise, quyan schools seem to have been independent to some extent from mansions.
Also, ishroi and quya are overlapping but distinct classes. There are examples of non-quyan ishroi in 4-Revelations (e.g. the protagonist and the giant nonman who broke Wutteat's neck). Also no indication that CC himself was quya. I do not think we can say sorcerous ability was a prerequisite of rule, and it was certainly not a requisite for Ishroi.
Sorcerous ability (quya) was hereditary among nonmen, so likely a caste; although not strictly so. As noted, some were seen as both ishroi and quya, also some seem to have been bound to schools and thus quya only (Mitrul etc) whilst others did the bidding of their kings (Mekeritrig) and still others were permitted to rule (NG). So its a debatable point.
The Great Scald:
Interesting thread.
--- Quote from: Madness on October 15, 2013, 01:47:28 pm ---My first contention is that Nonmen experienced a rigid-caste system with Quya at the top. Sorcerous ability is in-part hereditary and the Quya are a hereditary caste.
--- End quote ---
I agree. The Nonmen lived in a caste society, for sure. The classic Indo-European caste system, that of Vedic India and ancient Sparta, seems to fit the bill. Quya (sorcerer-priests) on top, then warrior-nobles, then merchants, then menial workers, and finally slaves on the bottom. Rulers are from the two top castes. Castes are hereditary, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Nonmen selected for sorcerous ability in certain gene pools (much like the Dunyain selected for amoral intelligence in their breeding), so the Quya probably have different genetics from their non-magical cousins.
So, yeah, a very caste-oriented and status-oriented society, with the men massively outnumbering the women. This gender disparity, and the weird sexual dynamics that resulted from it, would've led to lots of female hypergamy and male homosexuality ("the sodomite kings of Eärwa", as the Tusk calls them).
--- Quote ---High Ainon serves as a metaphor for the Nonmen Mansions.
--- End quote ---
Erm, what? Where does it say that?
EkyannusIII:
You're very right about the caste system paralells (which show up in odd locations in scifi/fantasy - c.f. the Mimbari in Babylon 5, who also follow the I.E. caste pattern), but this caught my eye:
--- Quote from: Auriga on October 16, 2013, 09:43:23 am ---So, yeah, a very caste-oriented and status-oriented society, with the men massively outnumbering the women. This gender disparity, and the weird sexual dynamics that resulted from it, would've led to lots of female hypergamy and male homosexuality ("the sodomite kings of Eärwa", as the Tusk calls them).
--- End quote ---
My impression was that the gender disparity was the direct result of the Womb Plague, since all the women died out, and that the sodomy was the outcome of that since, well, you know. Did I miss something?
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