Earwa > The White-Luck Warrior
What does Kellhus/his children think of Sorweel?
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Walter ---I've always sort of thought that Yatwer wasn't as able to deceive Kellhus as Sorweel thinks. Do you guys think his true feelings are actually concealed from Kellhus and Co, or do you think they are acting as though they are just acting as though they are deceived?
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Madness ---I think its pretty clear from Wilshire's foggy recollections ;) of Ch. 3 that Serwa cannot see Sorweel's face and that Moenghus does recognize something in Sorweel. However, I think Kellhus keeps everyone in the dark. I was always surprised how much truth he told Esmenet but nothing deceives so well as the truth.
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Callan S. ---I think they have to guess around the absence of information, much like the rest of us (ie, rendered down to being much like worldborn like Kellhus remarks when he's about to be put on the circumfix)
I think the spooky thing Scott will bring in is that what animates Sorweels face is actually an entitity in itself, one which thinks it's in control of everything it does - which is to say, what Sorweel does.
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: lockesnow ---I like that latter thought, Callan.
I think Kellhus would have reasoned his way around Sorweel. If he didn't see Sorweel's face change in response the way he expected it to. The preview chapter suggests that Sorweel's face is not animated to reflect what an anasurimbor expects to see, but rather it is animated by love for the anasurimbor. Kellhus looks at the Delta in a face to gauge his manipulations and if he's not seeing any change, then he might reason the presence by the absence, classic scientific method.
Of course that sort of implies Sorweel is a black hole, neh?
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What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Centurion ---This is actually the question which currently dominates my thoughts when I'm thinking about this series. Here is where I am at:
Kellhus has walked in the Outside. At least, he disappeared for several days and came back claiming to have walked the Outside. He could be lying about this, but it feels true to me. He has explicitly stated that he was able to understand the laws of the Outside, and that the rules of the Outside and of magic follow the law of what comes before. But even if everything he has said is true (i think it is) it still doesn't mean that he is capable of seeing the whole of the gods' plans. Kellhus is still anchored by what comes before, and it seems like the gods would have to exist within a more complex reality of cause and effect.
As powerful as Kellhus and his Metagnosis are there appear to be a limits on what they can do. Kellhus can forge earth-shattering spells with his Dunyain intellect, but he cannot heal or create. The text seems to be pretty clear that events like Psatma's spontaneous bleeding and Yatwer's animated mud-visage are miracles, and these should be seen as distinct from even the most powerful of sorcery. It is possible that Kellhus can work and see such power, but that leaves me wondering why he isn't using this divine power to work his master plan.
It seems likely to me that the very nature of the gods renders them fundamentally different from mortals, and this includes their ability to interact with the mundane. They might be blind to the actions of Mog-Pharau (and possibly many other things), but they are still incredibly powerful. This power would extend to their ability to forge an assassin capable of slipping past a Dunyain intellect. Granted, Maithanet was not a pure Dunyain, but he was still very very good.
All of this leads me to conclude that the gods are probably capable of creating a glamour strong enough to trick a Dunyain. Is this the case with Sorweel's relationship with Yatwer? I don't know, but I'm kind of thinking it is.
Question: Do miracles carry the same taint of damnation that sorcery does? If they don't does that mean that the gods act within the will of the one god? It would be very interesting to find out what Mimara sees when she looks at Sorweel.
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