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Thus we shall define the soul as follows: that which precedes everything.

Kelhuss

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But what came before , the Dûnyain had learned, was inhuman

If the soul precedes everything, and what came before is inhuman, then what's that say about the soul? And, the soul being what the fight is about in these books, I found that very interesting.

Well, it makes sense, in that the soul proceeds from the Outside and is not a product of conception (I wouldn't say birth, because in utero I would imagine you are still souled) but rather seems to be a union of the Outside and the womb at conception?

This would be why birth still happened under the No-God, yet, all were stillborn because the connection between the womb and the Outside had been severed (or shunted, or blocked).

In other words, it is the Outside that proceeds everything?  So, is Kellhus manipulating the Outside, or being manipulated by it?

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For Kellhus the threat existed only in the fear manifested by the trapper. The forest was still his.

This is quite the conceit, even for one of the Conditioned; especially one who very nearly became consumed by the chaos of it. The entire prologue seems like a series of colossal missteps by Kellhus. It's a wonder he makes it.

Is it mere coincidence that a group of Sranc are hanging out around an ancient Kuniuric relic? Are they genuinely in there area solely to pilfer Leweth's runs?

On Kellhus' mistakes: realize he doesn't actually "make it" in the sense that he survives of his own ability.  Leweth is the one who saves him, otherwise he is dead in the snow there.  The greatest question is how deep does Moënghus' conditioning of Kellhus' path run?  Alternatively, how guided is Kellhus by things Outside?  I think that is a very deep tension in the whole first three books we should keep an eye on.  On that, Leweth's finding him is no coincidence.  Leweth being camped near those ruins is no accident.  The Sranc being nearby is also no accident, as it brings Mekeritrig into (or back into) conditioned ground.

Another ancient, massive tree shows up at the Nonmen ruins in the South does it not? What fascination do the Nonmen have with trees?

I believe that the trees mark the locations of Mansions.

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A powerful voice rang out in Kuniuric

It seems odd to me that the Nonman's first attempt at communication would be in the language of a long dead civilization. Unless I'm mistaken and it is still used amongst the North? I almost wonder whether their encounter was as much happenstance as it appears. Compound this excerpt with the Sranc prints near the Anasurimbor stele and it seems less likely it was chance.

I think that since Scott let slip that the Nonman is Mekeritrig and also considering that Scott said it was a mistake to tell us that, means that one, there is no chance this meeting was just a coincidence, and, two, that the fact that it's Mekeritrig is significant.  The reason he could be shouting in Kuniuric though is the same reason why he is prowling around Kuniuric ruins: he is reliving the past, trying to remember something, or someone.

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"I see that you are a student. Knowledge is power, eh?"

To what is he referring? A student of sorcery? The Gnosis? A student of the Logos? If the latter, wouldn't he know the Dunyain cult disappeared during the Apocalypse, presumably wiped out? How might it be the former if Kellhus bears no Mark?

This seems to speak to a Moe-Mek connection, perhaps he refers to the Dunyain?  We don't know what that word actually means.

There is the possibility that when Moënghus left Ishual, he met Mekeritrig on the way.  Or, more likely, is that Moënghus met him in the first place, prompting his dismissal from Ishual.  Perhaps it is actually to Moënghus that Mekeritrig speaks when he says, "I can see his blood in your face" not Celemomas or any of the other Ancient Anasûrimbors.

What is an elju? What does it do? Why is it necessary that he have one in his entourage?

The elju is a person who aid's an Erratic's memory.  I don't really understand how a Sranc fills that role, but perhaps it was just a Sranc with uncommonly good language skill?  Remember that Kosoter will be Cleric's elju later on.

I think the prologue is by far the best chapter in the series.  So damn layered, but we have no real idea which are dirt and which are gold.

I read Chapter 1 this morning, which, coming from the Prologue, is so much slower, haha.

Only the following stuck me:

“They call to me. They say that my end is not the world’s end. That burden, they say, is yours. Yours, Seswatha.”

This is Celemomas to Seswatha in Akka's dream.  So, Seswatha's end is the end of the world?  What dos that really mean?

So, I am going to just throw out some quotes I find interesting in the moment:

Superstition. Everywhere and in everything, Leweth had confused that which came after with that which came before, confused the effect for the cause. Men came after, so he placed them before and called them “gods” or “demons.” Words came after, so he placed them before and called them “scriptures” or “incantations.” Confined to the aftermath of events and blind to the causes that preceded him, he merely fastened upon the ruin itself, men and the acts of men, as the model of what came before.
But what came before, the Dûnyain had learned, was inhuman.
There must be some other explanation. There is no sorcery.

So, here we have what might be the first example of Kellhus being absolutely wrong.  Or is it?  Sure, he is wrong at sorcery isn't real, but since we know that, we would tend to discount this entire portion as "Kellhus is misguided by the Dunyain."  But perhaps the first part is right?  We don't actually know if the god or gods came before or after.

The walls shivered beneath a fierce succession of gusts, and the flame twirled with abrupt incandescence. The hanging pelts lightly rocked to and fro. Leweth looked about, his brow furrowed, as though he strained to hear someone.
“It’s a long way off, Kellhus, through dangerous lands.”
“Shimeh is not . . . holy for you?”

Is the wind and the fire's sudden increased brightness made to show us his superstitiousness or is there something else going on?

Also, how does Kellhus know that Shimeh is holy at all?

“Ruins. Ruins. N-Nonmen ruins. Many places to h-h-hide.”

Another Injor-Niyas mansion West of Sobel though.

Kellhus was astonished by the great stones of the gate. Many had a girth as huge as the oak they obscured. An uplifted face had been hewn from the lintel—blank eyes, as patient as sky.

Interesting, that is not a motif we have ever seen after.

“It speaks the language,” the man muttered at length. He stepped closer, peering at Kellhus. “Yes,” he said. “Yes . . . You do not merely mock me. I can see his blood in your face.”
Kellhus again was silent.
“You have the patience of an Anasûrimbor as well.”

This is a part of why I very much doubt that Kellhus is an Anasûrimbor in name only, Mek recognizes him and I believe him on this.

That's my thoughts on the Prologue, I'll try to get though another chapter tomorrow.

Because it's just half of the set, "complete novels". The other half is "Midnight Sun", which is "complete stories". And that one starts from USD95. So together they wouldn't be that much cheaper than the new edition. And anyway, if I wanted to buy anything from abroad, I would have to pay for "International Signed-for", which further increases costs. You see, parcels sent from abroad too often happen to get missing on the way here. True story.

OK, yeah, I just noticed that as you were posting.

Quote from: H on November 20, 2015, 11:43:54 am

The Rankine covers will always be the "true" covers to me, probably mostly for the fact that it was that cover of tDtCB that caught my eye and got me interested.

This.

However, I thought you won this topic when you pointed out that TGO has a recycled cover.

I think that was actually MG.

Quote from: H on November 19, 2015, 03:14:41 pm

Quote from: Wilshire on November 19, 2015, 02:58:50 pm

Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

The Slog of Slogs: TDTCB

etc. 

?

Won't that muddy the conversation up a bit?  I don't know, a thread per chapter seems like too many, but only one thread per book seems like too little?

Maybe a thread for each week?  So, three chapters?

Quote from: Wilshire on November 19, 2015, 02:58:50 pm

Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

Thats 30 threads. Seems like a lot.

Oops, I read too quickly, I thought it said chapter.

How do we want to organize the threads for this?

I think three chapters a week is a pretty nice pace, since it allows us plenty of time to discuss each one and not have to speed into the next as much.