[TGO SPOILERS] Meppa is...

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mrganondorf

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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2016, 10:25:20 pm »
@ Madness - Meppa as Consult kid?  Cool! 


@ Triskele - After Meppa's encounter with Esmi, it's possible that ALL physical descriptions of Cishaurim are meaningless.  Maybe Meppa is Fucking Fane himself and just appears however.


@ MSJ - I think Meppa will teach the Psukhe to either or both Kelmomas or Crab-Kid.  One of these kids ends up being the last hero to stand before No-God/Kellhus

I'm betting that Meppa is the last Cishaurim that wan't part of Old Moe's sect (The ones we will meet in Golgotterath)


@ Onrack - Possession and appearance transformation, all without the Mark!  Old Moe had all the tools to stage his own stabbing/salting!


OLD MOE STILL PULLING STRINGS--HAS THE REMANANTS OF THE CISHAURIM AND DUNYAIN IN GOLGOTTERATH, RUNS THE CONSULT

Madness

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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2016, 10:30:18 pm »
Lol - welcome back, MG 8)!

I don't believe Wilshire will appreciate your newfound "OLD MOE STILL PULLING STRINGS--HAS THE REMANANTS OF THE CISHAURIM AND DUNYAIN IN GOLGOTTERATH, RUNS THE CONSULT" hypothesis ;).
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mrganondorf

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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2016, 03:52:53 pm »
Lol - welcome back, MG 8)!

I don't believe Wilshire will appreciate your newfound "OLD MOE STILL PULLING STRINGS--HAS THE REMANANTS OF THE CISHAURIM AND DUNYAIN IN GOLGOTTERATH, RUNS THE CONSULT" hypothesis ;).

Just wait till there are no Cishaurim in TUC and then I'll put forward my theory that since the psukhe is invisible, the absence of Cishaurim is better than any other proof that they are really running the show!

Madness

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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2016, 03:39:53 pm »
He'll go become Malazan-Wilshire and eventually be equally disturbed by some comparable Malazan theory.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 08:28:16 pm »
Meppa is there to teach the Psukhe to Kelmomas and Samarmas, who will sing (or think really loud, in this case) with six voices at once using the meta-meta-Psukhe and their conjoined souls.

Madness

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« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2016, 02:29:23 pm »
Lol - MetaMetaPsukhe for the win.
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MSJ

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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2016, 09:42:06 pm »
Meppa is there to teach the Psukhe to Kelmomas and Samarmas, who will sing (or think really loud, in this case) with six voices at once using the meta-meta-Psukhe and their conjoined souls.

Yea, but the Psûkhe is based off of passion, Kelmommas doesn't seem like a prime canidate for the Psûkhe. Can't see that happening.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2016, 02:59:14 am »
Kelmomas is extremely passionate. He just loves his mother to death...

gtownwr

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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2016, 07:48:59 pm »
Lmao.

Honestly, I'll say again - I was a huge proponent of the "there's more to Moenghus the Elder" theories, though I'm largely sated by Kellhus admitting to Proyas that he killed his father in error. Regardless, I am, in fact, still holding out for Moenghus-Ascended.

But I feel like if people were upset about Cnaiur as "possible fan-service," they are going to lose it if Meppa is Moenghus the Elder.

Lmao. Readers.

Madness, I missed the part where Kellhus told Proyas he made a mistake killing Moe.  Did he say why he thought it was a mistake?

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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2016, 08:15:19 pm »
I will find the page when I get home.

It's from a Kellhus POV and I'm thinking it's chapter four just before Kell-yas or Proy-hus happens. Something about (and paraphrasing) "in my disorder I listened to the voices when they told me to kill my father."
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H

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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2016, 12:12:36 pm »
I will find the page when I get home.

It's from a Kellhus POV and I'm thinking it's chapter four just before Kell-yas or Proy-hus happens. Something about (and paraphrasing) "in my disorder I listened to the voices when they told me to kill my father."

Indeed:

Quote
“I began seeing … phantasms, hearing voices … Something began speaking to me.
Please … I-I …
“And in my disorder, I listened … I did what it commanded.”
...
“I killed my own father,” the Place said

-Chapter 4, TGO

It's interesting, because Kellhus doesn't actually say it was an outright mistake, as I had taken it the first time reading it.  No, he says the voice told him to do it and he listened.  He then says the voice is not sane.  So, he feels he acted on behalf of the insane voice.

So, a mistake?  Not necessarily.  He is lamenting the insanity of listening to the voice.  He is telling Proyas how far beyond any temporal morality he is.  To kill his father on the whim of an insane voice which he knows not the source of (but he does, really)?  To enact a plan based on a knowingly insane voice while not understanding it's source or it's ends (but, again, he actually does)?  This is the show for Proyas.  To show him it isn't divinity.  Kellhus knows full well that it is himself speaking to him.  He knows full well why he is speaking to himself.  He might be somewhat confused at times, he might doubt the vision or the voice, because no doubt the treads is tells him to pull are disparate and seemingly nonsensical.  The fact remains that the voice knows.

Consider further the insanity of believing that the voice could know this.  The voice could only know this if everything already happened, yet, it only happened because the voice knew and told Kellhus.  So, both are contingent on each other.  How could one have happened first?  It couldn't.  So, there is the insane idea that everything happened at the same time?  That it happened backwards?  That time, or cause, is bi-directional?

He is my theory, while on the Circumfix, Kellhus is open to the Outside, to the Absolute, through the cipher of Serwe.  The voice he hears is his own.  The visions he sees are himself.  Why is the voice insane?  Because it is telling him things outside causality, it is telling him what will happen before it happens.  This is because the voice already knows what happens, because it has all already happened.  Recall Akka's words to Cnaiur, that madness is the Outside leaking inward.  Key word there, mad.  Kellhus even tells us he is mad for having listened to the voice.  In reality he had no choice.  He is a pawn of himself as much as everyone is a pawn of him (they are all pawns of The Thousandfold Thought).  He never had a choice to resist the voice.

This is why he is now beyond himself.  This is why there is no "true" Kellhus.  This is why he can be "weary" of all this and yet still exacting it all.  Why he can feel emotions but not be moved by them.  Why he is The Place called Kellhus.  Kellhus is no more just a man with a plan.  He is a vessel through which the plan is driven, in his own words, "the Place, the point of maximal convergence."

This is also why the Consult cannot out-think him.  Their anticipation is already anticipated.  Their plans to foil TTT is already part of TTT.  They can't win.

OK, I think I might be a little off the rails now...
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2016, 08:15:34 pm »
You're a mad man H! But, that sounds plausible. I don't believe it, not explained like that at least, but I see something like that being close to the truth.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2016, 09:07:21 pm »
You're a mad man H! But, that sounds plausible. I don't believe it, not explained like that at least, but I see something like that being close to the truth.

Wilshire, what's even greater he has to admit that Kellhus had emotions and that he is weary. But, he is weary because of the TTT. It's a plan he has to inact and will not finish until he does. By now, Kellhus just wants to set on the shores of the Cherish Sea and enjoy some Anpoi, have some meat, and have Esmi and Proyas join him in the Umbilicus.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2016, 09:09:34 pm »
I'm also a proponent of "Moenghus the Elder is more than he seemed" thing but I would likewise be satisfied if we never learn any more than we do now and Kellhus extinguished all those possibilities in error out of madness. It would fit the themes of the series.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 09:18:00 pm by The Sharmat »

mrganondorf

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« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2016, 03:51:17 am »
Meppa is there to teach the Psukhe to Kelmomas and Samarmas, who will sing (or think really loud, in this case) with six voices at once using the meta-meta-Psukhe and their conjoined souls.

lol, now i'm imagining that Moenghus pulls a Shauriatas, fuses together Cishaurim souls