All good points.  I was making arguments reinforcing the idea that it had to be the No God that was a Dunyain due to the fact of the Inchoroi not knowing of them.  And their not knowing serving no additional purpose.  The Consult could have been working blindly under the Dunyain No God to corral Kellhus to Golgotterath to initiate the circumstances leading to the intervention of the Gods.  Since in this exercise we assume the No God is from the future, he knows the conditions that bring about the God's involvement, tries to recreate that in the past with Celmomas but fails, presumably because Cel is not Dunyain and has a soul.  The No-God tries a killing spree, that fails to bring the God's too.  And so initiates Ishual.  Kellhus having no soul to redeem AND leading the world would infuriate the Gods, I would think.

I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone that this IS the case.  It was just a speculation exercise to see if I could carry it all the way through and I'm satisfied enough with the answer to move on.

It would feel too shallow if everything that happened was made irrelevant in the end by a much bigger story-arc hiding behind a curtain.  And only so you could say the Dunyain created themselves.  Feels like a lot of work for a one-liner.

If we understand the Dunyain goal of a truly self moving soul, I feel like the final barriers to this goal would be Time and as a consequence, Death.  Kellhus has already demonstrated the ability to bend space with the gnosis, so the bending of time isn't outside of the bounds of possibility.

Let's assume the Incu-Holoinas, the Inchoroi Arc, is a time-travel device as Simas Polshias guessed on the first page of this thread.  And instead of a foreign enemy, we think of the No-God as a decendant of Kellhus.  A Dunyain who has literally come before himself.

It would follow that the Inchoroi and Consult are the evolution of the Dunyain domination of men.  Two of the strongest levers that Kellhus uses against man are belief and sexual desire.  Think about his rise to a deity in the holy war and ALWAYS keeping beautiful woman at his side (Serwe/Esmi) to appeal to man's base insticts.  He exercises domination of soul and flesh.

The Inchoroi and Consult are just an extension of this to the extreme.  The Inchoroi are driven by their zeal to reduce the number of souls in the world for their salvation.  And the Skin Spies  bent only towards sexual gratification.  Each of these are the levers of man, magnified.

Add to this the Inchoroi ability to induce immortality in Non-Men and we can assume the No-God has achieved immortality as well.  So after conquering time and death, why come back in time to march against the world?

We see the reason in the White Luck Warrior; The Gods are a threat to the Dunyain.  The assumption here is that the No-God cannot over-come them in his timeline and has traveled to the past to clear the Gods out of the path of the Dunyain.  I could speculate further on this, but let's continue.

So how do you reach the Gods?

In this, I think, No-God is aptly named.  Logic and reason destroys passion and belief.  In an attempt to draw out the Gods, the No-God murders millions in the first apocalypse.  As far as we know, the God's did not intervene.  Either they were intimidated or simply did not care enough about the loss.  The No-God had to re-asses.  If outright destruction did not move the Gods to act, he had to work in a way that did.

If we accept the idea that the No-God is an advanced Dunyain then we assume that everything that has happened since the first apocalypse is according to plan.  The Inchoroi breaking the will of the Non-Men, paving the way for man and thus Dunyain to come to the fore.  The first apocalypse culling all knowledge of the powerful logic-based gnosis down to one school who cannot share it due to the will of Seswatha's soul.  The monks sent to Ishual (dangerously close to Golgotterath) to set up a school for the Dunyain to train untouched for thousands of years.  Sranc finally attacking Ishual, releasing the Dunyain into the world.  The memories of Seswatha that communicate the idea of a threat from Golgotterath.  Kellhus' patricide when his father was not strong enough to unite the world.  With each lever, the No-God sets Kellhus up to gather the world's power like a lode stone.  Why?

To attract the ire of the God's.  We know in WLW, Kellhus is the target of Yatwer.  If Kellhus knows this (or will learn this), the No-God knows this and will use it to reach the Gods.  In fact, the No-God set up the same exact circumstance in the first apolcalypse with Anasurimbor Celmomas II.  An Anasurimbor leading the world in the Great Ordeal against Golgotterath.  Just like Kellhus.  For some reason the God's did not intervene as they do with Kellhus.  Apparently there can be no substitute.  He must use a Dunyain to lure out the Gods.

By feigning defeat by the Heron Spear of his own making and unleashing the true Dunyain, the No-God starts on a course to reign in Gods using Kellhus.  He must work through his past to secure his future.  He must dominate what comes before.

Additionally, if the No-God set in motion the Dunyain, did he not author his own beginning?  By setting up a dependent time-loop, the No-God is the only self moving soul.  Is this why Kellhus says the he is more than Dunyain?  Why else would the No-God reach out to Kellhus?

If you made it this far, what do you think?