To MG.... [TUC Spoilers]

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Redeagl

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« on: January 19, 2017, 03:56:26 pm »
This thread's title may sound familiar to some. If you are one of the old names then definitely you remember 2014 summer, TWLW disscusions is heated as hell on the forum and boom.... Bakker have just finished TUC manuscript... The last book of TAE trilogy then there is only TSTSNBN left. There was that awesome short story The False Sun and an excerpt from TUC. It was a good time to be a Bakker fan. And then forum members and moderator Madness have just got the manuscript to read and provide critique. You all were excited as hell to ask him your questions and the answers were even more exciting and now MG also a forum member have got the manuscript. The one that Madness didn't get. History repeats itself. People of the Ordeal, plauge MG with your questions here and hopefully you will get answers that fullfil your heart's darkest desires. Non dramatic version : MG answer our questions about TUC please.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:49:27 pm by Wilshire »
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

Redeagl

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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2017, 04:13:11 pm »
I will begin with an old question, How crucial is TSTSNBN to the ending of the story and how well does TAE stand on it's own compared to PoN?
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

profgrape

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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2017, 07:28:40 pm »
Prior to the split, RSB described the series as being a big strip tease with TUC being the moment the G-string went shooting across the room. 

While we did get a few revelations in TGO, it didn't live up to the "flying g-string moment".  Does TUC make up for that?  Or are my expectations completely out of whack?

mrganondorf

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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 05:43:17 pm »
I will begin with an old question, How crucial is TSTSNBN to the ending of the story and how well does TAE stand on it's own compared to PoN?

WELL HERE'S SOMETHING WEIRD!

I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT THE NAME IS OF TSTSNBN!

...HOWEVER...

TUC ENDS IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS

SO I COULD IMAGINE A FEW DIFFERENT TITLES FOR WHATEVER'S NEXT

TUC CHANGES EARWA MORE THAN TTT DID

Redeagl

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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 05:46:05 pm »
I will begin with an old question, How crucial is TSTSNBN to the ending of the story and how well does TAE stand on it's own compared to PoN?

WELL HERE'S SOMETHING WEIRD!

I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT THE NAME IS OF TSTSNBN!

...HOWEVER...

TUC ENDS IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS

SO I COULD IMAGINE A FEW DIFFERENT TITLES FOR WHATEVER'S NEXT

TUC CHANGES EARWA MORE THAN TTT DID
Avoided the question eh  :P ( it is an addiction)  but do you need to know what comes next or is it enough?
“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

- Chronicler of the Chroniclers

mrganondorf

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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 05:53:13 pm »
Prior to the split, RSB described the series as being a big strip tease with TUC being the moment the G-string went shooting across the room. 

While we did get a few revelations in TGO, it didn't live up to the "flying g-string moment".  Does TUC make up for that?  Or are my expectations completely out of whack?

YES AND NO!

BAKKER'S GOT SUCH A MYSTERY HABIT--THERE ARE STILL SUBSTANTIAL MYSTERIES AFTER TUC

HOWEVER, TUC REVEALS SOME PRETTY AWESOME STUFF.  THE END INCLUDES A MAJOR REVELATION ABOUT WHAT HAS COME BEFORE -- A REVELATION THAT OVERLAPS WITH A MAJOR FORWARD PLOT ADVANCEMENT THINGY

THE BOOK WAS A CRAZY MIX OF OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT! AND HOLY CRAP HOW LONG MUST I WAIT FOR MORE!

IT'S NOT THAT I THINK BAKKER WILL KICK ALL OF THE CANS DOWN THE ROAD FOREVER, IT'S JUST THAT HE IS STILL HOARDING SOME GOOD STUFF THAT I EXPECT HE WILL REVEAL ... EVENTUALLY

...BUT...

IMO--TUC IS A MAJOR REVELATION ABOUT THE ULTIMATE STRUCTURAL PHILOSOPHICAL POINT OF VIEW THAT BAKKER HAS CREATED EARWA AROUND.  THAT IS, THERE WAS PLENTY OF PLOT STUFF THAT DIDN'T REVEAL ANCIENT MYSTERIES BUT DID REVEAL THE BARE BONES TRUTH OF THIS BAKKERVERSE

I HAD THAT FEELING THAT I ALREADY KNOW HOW ANY FURTHER STORIES WILL END

Wilshire

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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 05:59:15 pm »
I bet MG photoshopped his picture of TUC. He has nothing but lies to give us!
One of the other conditions of possibility.

mrganondorf

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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 06:02:58 pm »
I will begin with an old question, How crucial is TSTSNBN to the ending of the story and how well does TAE stand on it's own compared to PoN?

WELL HERE'S SOMETHING WEIRD!

I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT THE NAME IS OF TSTSNBN!

...HOWEVER...

TUC ENDS IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS

SO I COULD IMAGINE A FEW DIFFERENT TITLES FOR WHATEVER'S NEXT

TUC CHANGES EARWA MORE THAN TTT DID
Avoided the question eh  :P ( it is an addiction)  but do you need to know what comes next or is it enough?

HAHA!

OK OK

TAE STANDS GREAT ON ITS OWN.  MORE COHERENT THAN POE, IMO.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT TSTSNBN IS TO ALL OF TSA.  TRULY, BAKKER SURPRISES.  HE COULD DO SOME CRAZY SHIT, IDK.

BUT I SUSPECT THAT TSTSNBN WILL PUT CHARACTERS IN THE SEMBLANCE OF DRAMA AND YET WILL COME FULL CIRCLE TO SORT OF 'CONFIRM' THE END OF TUC.  IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TUC IS THE CULMINATION OF BAKKER'S 'ARGUMENT.'  ALL FURTHER MATERIAL WILL (EVENTUALLY) BE USED TO CONFIRM TUC.

BUT LIKE I SAID, I DON'T KNOW.  THIS GUY WAS SO PATIENT AS TO FORESHADOW SAUBON'S TGO THING WAY BACK IN TWP, SO WE SHOULD DEFINITELY EXPECT SOME UNEXPECTED FROM FUTURE BAKKER.

ALSO.  REMEMBER THE COLLEGE OF LUTHYMAE?

mrganondorf

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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 06:04:22 pm »
I bet MG photoshopped his picture of TUC. He has nothing but lies to give us!

IT'S ENTIRELY TRUE!  LETS PLAY 3 LIES AND 0 TRUTHS

1. IT WAS LEWETH
2. IT WAS LEWETH'S WIFE
3. SHE WAS THE LAST NONWOMAN

profgrape

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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 07:17:04 pm »
I will begin with an old question, How crucial is TSTSNBN to the ending of the story and how well does TAE stand on it's own compared to PoN?

WELL HERE'S SOMETHING WEIRD!

I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT THE NAME IS OF TSTSNBN!

...HOWEVER...

TUC ENDS IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS

SO I COULD IMAGINE A FEW DIFFERENT TITLES FOR WHATEVER'S NEXT

TUC CHANGES EARWA MORE THAN TTT DID
Avoided the question eh  :P ( it is an addiction)  but do you need to know what comes next or is it enough?

HAHA!

OK OK

TAE STANDS GREAT ON ITS OWN.  MORE COHERENT THAN POE, IMO.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT TSTSNBN IS TO ALL OF TSA.  TRULY, BAKKER SURPRISES.  HE COULD DO SOME CRAZY SHIT, IDK.

BUT I SUSPECT THAT TSTSNBN WILL PUT CHARACTERS IN THE SEMBLANCE OF DRAMA AND YET WILL COME FULL CIRCLE TO SORT OF 'CONFIRM' THE END OF TUC.  IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TUC IS THE CULMINATION OF BAKKER'S 'ARGUMENT.'  ALL FURTHER MATERIAL WILL (EVENTUALLY) BE USED TO CONFIRM TUC.

BUT LIKE I SAID, I DON'T KNOW.  THIS GUY WAS SO PATIENT AS TO FORESHADOW SAUBON'S TGO THING WAY BACK IN TWP, SO WE SHOULD DEFINITELY EXPECT SOME UNEXPECTED FROM FUTURE BAKKER.

ALSO.  REMEMBER THE COLLEGE OF LUTHYMAE?

College of Luthymae -- The College of the Thousand Temples responsible for spying and intelligence.

H

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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 08:32:44 pm »
I bet MG photoshopped his picture of TUC. He has nothing but lies to give us!

IT'S ENTIRELY TRUE!  LETS PLAY 3 LIES AND 0 TRUTHS

1. IT WAS LEWETH
2. IT WAS LEWETH'S WIFE
3. SHE WAS THE LAST NONWOMAN

The number of lies is one of the lies!

ALSO.  REMEMBER THE COLLEGE OF LUTHYMAE?

College of Luthymae -- The College of the Thousand Temples responsible for spying and intelligence.

I also Remember the Lusitania.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Ciogli

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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 10:02:39 am »
Do the Nonmen play a significant role in this book? There were scarcely a dozen Intact and then Oirunal dies, the last Tsonos is dead and without that will they follow the lead of another? There were apparently many Tall in the mere and hundreds that barely hung on above. One of the best things about ishteribinth was the answering of questions about the Nonmen, does that continue in this volume?
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Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 10:33:09 pm »
What % of TUC takes place in Momemn, Three Seas and Zeum?

Francis Buck

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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2017, 06:54:03 am »
Does suffering blur the lines of epochs, rather than hell?

Do the dead yet remain among the living, indistinguishable from each other?

Was Shaeonanra a woman?

Is Kelmomas an angel?

Finally: Is it really turtles all the way down?


mrganondorf

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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 03:24:11 pm »
@ Wilshire - YOUR DOG IS A LIE

@ Ciogli - The Nonmen do play a significant role in TUC but it is very different from what happened in TGO.  I would say that Bakker is definitely trying to emphasize a “human” theme in the final book.

@ Hirtius/Pansa - I think it would be to spoilery to answer your question directly!  However, when I wrote my book review for TGO, I tried to conceal as much as possible, but the other book reviews let this kind of thing out.  So, you may get this answered before July.  A big portion of the book takes place on the way to the Ark and I was surprised by what a big deal that was.

@ Francis Buck - Yikes!  I don’t know how to answer about epochs!  Say, next time we’re hanging in the midatlantic, we should just go to that Norman mansion we saw!  :)  FB, you ask good questions, I don’t want to let something good slip…IT IS NOT TURTLES ALL THE WAY DOWN!  The major players and THEIR ROLES are revealed. :P