The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: What Came Before on June 04, 2013, 06:00:44 pm
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Sorry to everyone who got excited and thought that there would be news about it in this first post. I know nothing about it, but I am curious if anyone actually does. I've seen maybe 10 or 15 posts about spread out through all the boards and I thought (yet again) that making a topic for it could be prudent.
Speculation, rumors, facts, theories? Does anyone have anything concrete to offer? Anything that you would give an arm and a leg to see in it?
For me, I almost hope that it will be released as a stand alone novel after TUC, as it is taking Bakker plenty long enough to write it without worrying about an Encyclopedia filled with untold multitudes of short stories and more definitions than you could shake a finger at. However, I doubt it. Bakkers not one to squeeze profits from his books, and he would probably see releasing a stand alone book as a cheap way to make money. I certainly don't think anyone else would see it like that, as his works are always nicely polished, but he is know for a certain amount of self-loathing when it comes to things like that.
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From what I understand, Wilshire, the Expanded Encyclopedia has been planned as a stand-alone for a long time. I remember even after TJE, Bakker mentioning that he was fast accumulating too much to fit at the end of TUC.
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and he would probably see releasing a stand alone book as a cheap way to make money.
On the other hand, if his muse compels him to make it, then he is compelled, whether it makes money or not. I rather suspect he will be compelled - assuming the critical mass of material suddenly just seems too much for TUC. And how likely is that with the thick, dense history of Earwa? Pretty likely - see, I know and command, and he hopes and serves up books! ;) Okay, bad joke...
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I think I'll take a dive into the wank sea of the Westeros literature sub-forum and find all those silly posts by Happy Ent and others sometime this week.
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I'm looking forward to the Encyclopedia as much as the the book.
/This forum could use a short story release to liven it up
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As am I, as am I. It will likely contain many wonders things.
Camlost and I were chatting the other day and its likely that the forum won't see much traffic until TUC comes out. Even if Bakker releases a short story/excerpt/chapter from TUC, we'll likely run through speculation pretty quickly. The issue is that many of us here have had nearly a year and a half to digest WLW and run it through the Westeros think tank, the current incarnation of which, WLW IX, is still drawing posts there.
The key for now is to post here when you can. Slowly, we can build up the number of threads to partake in, the numbers of members to communicate with, and the Bakker FanNet will grow.
It'll come, Ajokli :).
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We just need to troll an opiniated website like ACM to get traffic up, lol.
Someone crank up a fiery thread on "bakker hates muslims" or something. :twisted:
I'm fine with waiting for the full cycle to be done before a proper encyclopedia though.
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As am I, as am I. It will likely contain many wonders things.
Camlost and I were chatting the other day and its likely that the forum won't see much traffic until TUC comes out. Even if Bakker releases a short story/excerpt/chapter from TUC, we'll likely run through speculation pretty quickly. The issue is that many of us here have had nearly a year and a half to digest WLW and run it through the Westeros think tank, the current incarnation of which, WLW IX, is still drawing posts there.
The key for now is to post here when you can. Slowly, we can build up the number of threads to partake in, the numbers of members to communicate with, and the Bakker FanNet will grow.
It'll come, Ajokli :).
Should we start an official forum reread? I've been tempted to start such a thread in TDTCB forum, but I don't know how people would like to structure the thing, time frame, a thread per chapter? a whole reread subforum? no idea.
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An official forum reread sounds like quite a chore, but rather entertaining if you as me. A post a chapter would indeed liven things up if anyone cared to go back that far.
I think a big problem with this site and fanbase is that its full of people who know a whole lot and who have been around for a while, but with no one to share with. There aren't a lot of new people to enlighten, and I can certainly see how newbies would be intimidated. Especially posting a question in TDTCB thread which has... what, 1 post in it?
I recently helped a good friend of mine through the TPON, and I got another to start reading. Its not like any one of the books is easily understood to anyone who's just began the journey. They have lots and lots of questions, as I did when starting out (and still do), but there isn't an easily accessible place for someone to attain that kind of information. Information pertaining to early book stuff. Sure lots of it is in appendices and the encyclopedia after TTT, but a lot of it isn't.
Just a bunch of my own random thoughts I suppose
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I've been thinking I need to read the books again anyway. A forum reread sounds great to me.
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In the meantime I successfully persuaded my GF to read the books. And she liked them a lot. Surely that catapults her into 'keeper' status.
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I have always been curious as to how these books read for a female. I recommended them to a female friend of mine but she hasn't gotten around to them yet.
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I have always been curious as to how these books read for a female. I recommended them to a female friend of mine but she hasn't gotten around to them yet.
I tried a total of 2 times. Failed both attempts. However I'm not sure if this is because of the subject matter or the utter dullness of TDTCB. To be fair, on a first read through, its confusing, doesn't have much action, and is incredibly dense. Though after reading the series twice, its quite amazing once you grasp the big picture and can focus on the minutia.
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Yeah I found that except for Cnaiur's bits and some of the opening that it was a slog the first time through. Then it just...ends in what felt like the start of act 2, just as stuff starts happening. The next two really hooked me though, and TDTCB is surprisingly improved by a re-read, with the rest of the series in you.
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re: Sharmat asking how this reads to a female - ill take the liberty to speak for my wife: She loves the series and has always been rather confused by the "RSB is a woman hating s.o.b." line of attack. She realizes this is fiction.
Anywho, back on topic - i would kill a small <insert something appropriately horrifying> for the encyclopedia but i want TUC first and foremost.
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I would like to see a Unification Wars entry a la Apocalypse/Cuno-Inchoroi Wars in TTT Glossary.
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Me too!
Would also love to see some of the skirmishes that are supposed to be going on between Consult and Mandate, pre-skin spy. Is that like, a team of mandati try to retake some of the north (like Sauglish) and have to duel over territory with Aurang? Facing erratics or synthese or ursranc? Shae's form seems a little unweildy for the outer world.
What the hell would they even be fighting over? The north is lost (is it not yet considered lost for the mandate's first few centuries) the Consult seem to just need to hunker down and do all their teckne studies. Would the Mandate be aggressors across the northern wastes? Would the Consult/Sranc/Scylvendi continue to attack nations to reduce the population by any means necessary? Mandati are called in by whatever local lord is having trouble?
Maybe right after the death of Mog, the sranc population was (considered by the Consult) to be too low and the North could be regained by humans. So they actively fence the 3 seas in to give over half of Earwa to sranc incubation for the hated day? Maybe they could have remade Mog at any point and just needed to wait for sranc levels to rise?
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Would also love to see some of the skirmishes that are supposed to be going on between Consult and Mandate, pre-skin spy. Is that like, a team of mandati try to retake some of the north (like Sauglish) and have to duel over territory with Aurang? Facing erratics or synthese or ursranc? Shae's form seems a little unweildy for the outer world.
Shaeonanra must use other versions of Synthese, MG.
I figure more that Consult actively try to murder the world by any means necessary. Including a means so simply as actively directed war against Atrithau.
Would the Consult/Sranc/Scylvendi continue to attack nations to reduce the population by any means necessary?
Yeah, +1.
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Can Shae do that? I had the impression that a synthese is produced via an inchoroi standing in the center of sil's shield while the shae circle sends him forth? So, shae could help, but couldn't be a synthese, idk.
If Shae has a synthese, I bet it's something awesome like a bear covered in snake skin, back covered in massive scorpion tales and of course...penduluous phallus.
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Can Shae do that? I had the impression that a synthese is produced via an inchoroi standing in the center of sil's shield while the shae circle sends him forth?
As far as I know, we don't know how the Synthese works... what you just wrote is entirely a product of imagination though...
I assume Shaeonanra can use Synthese.
If Shae has a synthese, I bet it's something awesome like a bear covered in snake skin, back covered in massive scorpion tales and of course...penduluous phallus.
Exactly :): The Synthese/V. Bird (http://second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=829.0)
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I know Bakker said that he planned the Glossary as a tease, but is it true that (as I've seen mentioned by some) that he said in a interview that some entries are misleading or that they contain false info?
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True. The TTT glossary contains false perspectives and misleading information, much like any other character in the book.
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lol, maybe a big reveal is going to be naming various narrators for the books, so we have an idea what specifically they were lying about, like in Kierkegaard
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lol, maybe a big reveal is going to be naming various narrators for the books, so we have an idea what specifically they were lying about, like in Kierkegaard
Can you elaborate on that? You mean revealing that each book we're reading is, in fact, someone literally telling the story/writing the books in-universe?
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lol, maybe a big reveal is going to be naming various narrators for the books, so we have an idea what specifically they were lying about, like in Kierkegaard
Can you elaborate on that? You mean revealing that each book we're reading is, in fact, someone literally telling the story/writing the books in-universe?
lol! i don't think it's going to happen, but it would be wild if Kellhus ordered a scribe to compile the PON and instructed him/her on how to do it. i don't see enough differences in style to separate the 3 works, but maybe the argument could be made that the 1st trilogy has one author and the 2nd trilogy has another. more divine intrusion in the second, diff pov's but still keeping esmi's pov.
candidates for writer of first trilogy? must be alive and intelligent: Esmi, Proyas, Kellhus, Akka, Kosoter, Sarl, this is going to be too long...
what would be the point? the narrator could lie by fabricating Kellhus' back story. perhaps Kellhus is literally from Atrithau and is simply a new prophet (has even cured blindness on occasion). the narrator could like about Esmi (she is in fact Dunyain or something else and is made to seem weaker than she really is to conceal her role as puppet master).
maybe TSTSNBN is Bakker's equivalent to a Earwan True History?
i don't think Bakker will pull this trick on us, but he's going to be doing something along the lines of exposing the reader's ignorance, he just harps on that theme too much!
this is fun!