The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Unholy Consult => Topic started by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2017, 03:01:47 am

Title: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2017, 03:01:47 am
The World to him, who sings my song,

for I am the Font, the Spirit of the Deepest Deep,

and mine is the first heart to beat your blood.

The World to him, who sings my song.


I, Imimorul, fled the Heavens,

so much did I love the brooks that chirrup,

the high mountains that hiss,

the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair,


The World to him, who raises up rooves in the Deep.

I, Imimorul, did flee the Starving [sky], so much did I fear the Heavens,

the wrath of those who were wroth, who would forbid my love,

of the myriads of the World.


The World to her, who kindles her fire in the Deep.

I, Imimorul, did cut from my hand my fingers,

and from my arm, my hand, and from my body, my arm,

and these pieces of me I did place in the wombs of Lions,

so that I might dwell content in my own company.

And I became One-Armed, Imimorul, the Unshielded.

And you were as children to me,

the form of Gods as the issue of Lions, sons who would father nations,

and daughters who would mother the myriads of the World.

And I sang to you such songs as are only heard in the highest of Heavens, and nowhere in the Hells.

We did weep together, as we sang, for woe cares not for names or glory only that skin blackens for bruising, breaks for blood.


The World to him, who sings my song.

The World to him, who finds me in the Deep.

The World to him, and woe.



Bakker, R. Scott. The Unholy Consult: Book Four of the Aspect-Emperor series (Aspect Emperor 4) (Kindle Locations 10786-10792). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on July 25, 2017, 09:21:03 am
Beautiful.

And weird. The creation of the Nonmen is worrying me. I always thought that they were simply a natural evolution of some kind of hominid, but now I have my doubts (and the same goes for the earwan humans).

Who/What was Imimorûl exactly? Fallen god? Demon? Protoinchoroi?
Why his obsession to not to be seen by the starving sky?
How did he make the Nonmen? Tekne?

Or maybe it's all just a nice and plain piece of mythology and nothing more.
The creation of a race from the pieces of a god/titan reminds me the norse creation, how the gods used the parts of Ymir to make the cosmos.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: H on July 25, 2017, 12:35:55 pm
Who/What was Imimorûl exactly? Fallen god? Demon? Protoinchoroi?
Why his obsession to not to be seen by the starving sky?

Well, as I read it, there the Heavens and then there is the (Starving) Sky.  While they are related, they are not the same.  I think the Heavens are the actual Outside, the literal place where the gods dwell.  The Starving Sky is a euphemism, I think, to denote the (sort of) interface by which the gods see through into the world.  So, the Sky isn't the gods, but since it's the place through which (it seems) the gods can view the world, the Sky is Starving, because the gods hunger.

So, when Imimorûl claims to flee Heaven, he is fleeing the judgement of the Outside.  When he flees the Starving Sky, he is fleeing the god's view.  Presumably, by the glossary entry bearing his name, he might have been among the first to speak sorcery and so garner the Mark.  As such, it makes a good deal of sense why he would want to avoid the gods and the Outside.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on July 25, 2017, 12:52:19 pm
Good point.

And what do you think about the grisly creation of the Nonmen?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Yellow on July 25, 2017, 01:06:19 pm
The description of him cutting off his appendages reminds me of the God creating the Hundred (as per Bakker on Westeros). Wonder if they're linked. The Lions may be Ciphrang who took on the "principles" (eg fertility) and became the Hundred.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: H on July 25, 2017, 01:12:48 pm
Good point.

And what do you think about the grisly creation of the Nonmen?

Confusing, haha.

I don't know, I am apt to not take that literally, although, he probably somehow did sacrifice his arm at some point.

Him giving up his "shield arm" seems like the significant part.  Giving up the arm that would protect himself.  So, the arm of his protection becomes the "seed" of his progeny.  So, perhaps, in a way, he gives up the protection, or the ability to protect himself, which he had in being alone, to sow the seeds of his race?  Open then to the "Lions" that are women?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on July 25, 2017, 01:28:31 pm
The description of him cutting off his appendages reminds me of the God creating the Hundred (as per Bakker on Westeros). Wonder if they're linked. The Lions may be Ciphrang who took on the "principles" (eg fertility) and became the Hundred.

Another good point.

Are the Nonmen are other weapon race? And if it is so, a weapon against who?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on July 25, 2017, 01:46:02 pm
Thanks, Cüréthañ.

I really enjoy the notation that makes at least one distinction between Heavens and Hells:

Quote
And I sang to you such songs as are only heard in the highest of Heavens, and nowhere in the Hells.

Also, I don't think I ever read this as one piece, just the fractured Boatmen version while Oinaral and Sorweel ride the Haul. It's a pretty obvious analogy, at least to mine Roman Catholic upbringing, that Imimorûl is Satan?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on July 25, 2017, 02:03:54 pm
I thought the same. Some kind of promethean fallen angel like Milton's Satan.

By the way I don't know if Bakker has catholic roots but there are other great analogies with catholicism all along the series, some of them pretty obvious.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on July 25, 2017, 02:14:32 pm
I thought the same. Some kind of promethean fallen angel like Milton's Satan.

By the way I don't know if Bakker has catholic roots but there are other great analogies with catholicism all along the series, some of them pretty obvious.

Pretty strong roots even. Though, I'd go for the Milton analogy as taking precedent with Bakker, in this case.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2017, 02:22:06 pm
It's rendered complete in the Glossary, along with a lot of other great tidbits about Nonman history and beliefs. For instance, Quya translates as 'miner'.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on July 25, 2017, 02:23:37 pm
It's rendered complete in the Glossary, along with a lot of other great tidbits about Nonman history and beliefs. For instance, Quya translates as 'miner'.

So apparently the Quya do not share the same human disdain for using sorcery for mundane purposes ;)?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2017, 02:27:50 pm
Haha, yeah. :D Or they just really like nimil.

But this is great, as I've been keen for some Earwan creation myths. There's another one where Yatwer makes the first woman out of dust.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on July 25, 2017, 02:28:26 pm
So it seems that catholicism education makes good fantasy writers: Tolkien, Martin, Sapkowski, Bakker... lol.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on July 25, 2017, 02:29:55 pm
There's another one where Yatwer makes the first woman out of dust.

I'm probably going to read the canon artifact nearer the end of the week and over the weekend. Really excited to get into the Glossary. I probably read TTT Glossary every which way, jumping from entry to entry, reading it straight through, for about two weeks after I finished PON the first time.

So it seems that catholicism education makes good fantasy writers: Tolkien, Martin, Sapkowski, Bakker... lol.

Or at least the cognitive dissonance caused by that upbringing makes good writers ;)?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on July 25, 2017, 02:35:04 pm
Yeah, deo gratias for that. Lol.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: H on July 25, 2017, 04:42:00 pm
Well, seems like Adam mixed with Satan though, spiced with a sort of reverse Eve.

A very Bakker combination...
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: generalguy on July 25, 2017, 06:43:06 pm
It's rendered complete in the Glossary, along with a lot of other great tidbits about Nonman history and beliefs. For instance, Quya translates as 'miner'.

So apparently the Quya do not share the same human disdain for using sorcery for mundane purposes ;)?
Or by analogy they mine reality and meaning


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on July 26, 2017, 06:27:43 pm
Yeah, deo gratias for that. Lol.

Lol.

It's rendered complete in the Glossary, along with a lot of other great tidbits about Nonman history and beliefs. For instance, Quya translates as 'miner'.

So apparently the Quya do not share the same human disdain for using sorcery for mundane purposes ;)?
Or by analogy they mine reality and meaning

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Truth.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 01, 2017, 11:20:05 am
I was just reading this again, and one line has me confused.

"the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair".

...the Nonmen don't have any whatsoever.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: profgrape on September 01, 2017, 05:14:06 pm
I was just reading this again, and one line has me confused.

"the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair".

...the Nonmen don't have any whatsoever.

Nice catch!  Makes me wonder if they had hair before the Inoculation; chemotherepies often causes alopecia, maybe it was the same for the Inoculation?  And after it was administered, they didn't regrow those cells...
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: SuJuroit on September 01, 2017, 05:29:20 pm
I interpreted hair as a metaphor for trees/plant life.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 01, 2017, 06:49:17 pm
Yeah, I came to that conclusion that it indicated trees/mountains/grass being the "hair" of the world.

Still reckon Imimorûl was bald as an egg.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on September 01, 2017, 07:02:20 pm
I was just reading this again, and one line has me confused.

"the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair".

...the Nonmen don't have any whatsoever.

Nice catch!  Makes me wonder if they had hair before the Inoculation; chemotherepies often causes alopecia, maybe it was the same for the Inoculation?  And after it was administered, they didn't regrow those cells...

When were the sranc created? If they existed before the Inoculation (I don't remember that now) the Nonmen were already bald, because I asume the sranc were created hairless.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on September 01, 2017, 07:15:36 pm
Imimorûl apparently cut off his shield arm, fed its pieces to lions, to birth the whole species of Nonpeople, to escape the Gods in the deepest parts of the ground...

But yeah... don't know why he could have had Fabio-hair either ;)?

Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Duskweaver on September 02, 2017, 10:12:04 am
I interpreted hair as a metaphor for trees/plant life.
Yes, but why would a poet of an utterly hairless species use that metaphor in the first place? Logically, Nonmen shouldn't even have a word for 'hair'. 'Fur' or 'pelt', of course, because of animals (and the Emwama would surely have been seen as just another animal), but not 'hair' with its (for want of a better term) human connotations. Yet the poem deliberately uses the word 'hair'. It's odd.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: TLEILAXU on September 02, 2017, 04:54:54 pm
I interpreted hair as a metaphor for trees/plant life.
Yes, but why would a poet of an utterly hairless species use that metaphor in the first place? Logically, Nonmen shouldn't even have a word for 'hair'. 'Fur' or 'pelt', of course, because of animals (and the Emwama would surely have been seen as just another animal), but not 'hair' with its (for want of a better term) human connotations. Yet the poem deliberately uses the word 'hair'. It's odd.
Maybe the People of Dawn had hair once, before they became totally subterranean.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Woden on September 02, 2017, 07:54:31 pm
If this humanoid race is older enough that could be.
Maybe in a million of years of evolution human will all be bald as Nonmen. At least this "evolution" started in my head long ago, lol.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Monkhound on September 04, 2017, 04:05:59 pm
For similar Creation analogies you also have the Greek mythology (first the Creation, then later Prometheus stealing the Fire), God creating humanity according to Genesis or other cabalistic traditions, the Sumerian tradition, and most certainly a myriad of other versions. Most rely on being created from clay and recieving a divine impulse through either a pièce of the divine (either physical piece, or a breath).
 And let's also not forget Aulë creating the dwarves in the Silmarillion (I believe: created from stone, under the largest mountains?).

Why the use of the word "hair"? Possibly just because we read Sorweel's interpretation of the text?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Duskweaver on September 05, 2017, 07:31:04 pm
Why the use of the word "hair"? Possibly just because we read Sorweel's interpretation of the text?
That's a good point. 'Hair' could just be how the Amiolas translates the concept from Ihrimsu because it's being worn by a human.

Stepping away from the hairy issue for a moment. Could there be any connection between Imimorul supposedly coming from the sky and the Nonman association of depth with the past and altitude with the future (c.f. the Great Pit of Years)?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on September 08, 2017, 01:45:59 am
Why the use of the word "hair"? Possibly just because we read Sorweel's interpretation of the text?
That's a good point. 'Hair' could just be how the Amiolas translates the concept from Ihrimsu because it's being worn by a human.

Lol, my joking aside, why couldn't Imimorul have had hair? I don't get it. He's an anomaly in the text for a variety of supernatural reasons.

Also, I love that this has been a point of contention, Duskweaver ;).

Stepping away from the hairy issue for a moment. Could there be any connection between Imimorul supposedly coming from the sky and the Nonman association of depth with the past and altitude with the future (c.f. the Great Pit of Years)?

Oh, I like that. I'm sure FB has brought up versions of this before but per-Enlightenment "maps" of reality tended to look like this:

(http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/history/carnegie/aristotle/chainofbeing.jpg)

A lot of Great Chain of Being interpretations, right ;)?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Duskweaver on September 08, 2017, 02:45:39 pm
why couldn't Imimorul have had hair? I don't get it. He's an anomaly in the text for a variety of supernatural reasons.
Maybe the Nonmen are hairless because Imimorul didn't have any hair on his fingers? ;)

In any case, the issue isn't Imimorul's hirsuteness or otherwise, but the strangeness of a hairless species using the word 'hair' as a poetic metaphor.

Quote
Also, I love that this has been a point of contention, Duskweaver ;).
I wouldn't say we were contending. I'm certainly not suggesting that the use of the word 'hair' is a mistake. I just think it raises some potentially interesting questions. Were Nonmen always bald? Did the Amiolas translate the poem non verbum e verbo sed sensum de sensu, hence inserting a metaphor from Sorweel's culture? Did the poem originate as a history lesson from a Nonman to his Emwama, and thus use a metaphor that made sense to them rather than to the poet's own species?

Quote
Oh, I like that. I'm sure FB has brought up versions of this before but per-Enlightenment "maps" of reality tended to look like this:
(http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/history/carnegie/aristotle/chainofbeing.jpg)
A lot of Great Chain of Being interpretations, right ;)?
Sure. The Chain is sort of an Ourouboros in Earwa, though, isn't it? Coming too close to the Absolute, the Godhead at the top, damns you and returns you right to the bottom, with the Ciphrang, deader than stone. Unless you can turn it on its side, realise the circle is a spiral (no circle, no soul), and escape laterally into Oblivion.

Although I was really just suggesting that Imimorul might have come from the future. ;)
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on September 08, 2017, 03:29:26 pm
I wouldn't say we were contending. I'm certainly not suggesting that the use of the word 'hair' is a mistake. I just think it raises some potentially interesting questions. Were Nonmen always bald? Did the Amiolas translate the poem non verbum e verbo sed sensum de sensu, hence inserting a metaphor from Sorweel's culture? Did the poem originate as a history lesson from a Nonman to his Emwama, and thus use a metaphor that made sense to them rather than to the poet's own species?

Lol, all possibilities.

Sure. The Chain is sort of an Ourouboros in Earwa, though, isn't it? Coming too close to the Absolute, the Godhead at the top, damns you and returns you right to the bottom, with the Ciphrang, deader than stone. Unless you can turn it on its side, realise the circle is a spiral (no circle, no soul), and escape laterally into Oblivion.

Although I was really just suggesting that Imimorul might have come from the future. ;)

I'm sure we have a thread on creation myths or lack-thereof in Earwa...

- Who (or what) created Eärwa? (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=819.0)
- And maybe, tangentially, Inchoroi Gods (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1208.0).

And I didn't catch the temporal thought, that's interesting - though then you're still stuck figuring out why a future Nonman had hair ;). FB has long suspected a block universe and I'll yield to his or your leanings on myth/historical antecedents 8).
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 10, 2017, 11:08:45 am
Imimorûl uses the wombs of lions for his progeny and the mane for wigs.

Bakker pls confirm.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: solipsisticurge on September 10, 2017, 03:08:16 pm
The Gods ever hunger for only the finest, silkiest of manes, my brothers, which age not with the death of seasons or the blooding of second-born Sons; I implore thee to know - to believe! - that the soul most sacred can be found ONLY in the mane most luxuriant!

And thus do the Gods await the arrival of our salvation, Esmenet-most-Glossy, Esmenet-most-Coiffured, to their side; the Bringer of Style, the Harbinger of Wind Resistance, the Herald of the Great Parting, which will see all souls freed from the accursed chains of The Thinning Years! Salvation awaits all Men should they but seek it - not through great acts - nay, the crutch of false-souled Men who would blind thine eyes to their Recession through Worldly deed! Not through mercy - nay, the tenor of Heaven sings from the follicle, not the split end!

Salvation is a journey, my brethren - the toll of years tracked upon our scalps' cruel ground. And we, my kin, shall be saved where all others fall into endless torment, for WE! WEAR! CONDITIONED! GROUND!

...sorry.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Monkhound on September 11, 2017, 06:01:57 am
Wow... lol... xD
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Madness on September 13, 2017, 12:39:04 am
...sorry.

Lol, no need for apologies :).
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Wilshire on June 12, 2019, 02:15:18 pm
The Gods ever hunger for only the finest, silkiest of manes, my brothers, which age not with the death of seasons or the blooding of second-born Sons; I implore thee to know - to believe! - that the soul most sacred can be found ONLY in the mane most luxuriant!

And thus do the Gods await the arrival of our salvation, Esmenet-most-Glossy, Esmenet-most-Coiffured, to their side; the Bringer of Style, the Harbinger of Wind Resistance, the Herald of the Great Parting, which will see all souls freed from the accursed chains of The Thinning Years! Salvation awaits all Men should they but seek it - not through great acts - nay, the crutch of false-souled Men who would blind thine eyes to their Recession through Worldly deed! Not through mercy - nay, the tenor of Heaven sings from the follicle, not the split end!

Salvation is a journey, my brethren - the toll of years tracked upon our scalps' cruel ground. And we, my kin, shall be saved where all others fall into endless torment, for WE! WEAR! CONDITIONED! GROUND!

...sorry.
This is brilliant.

Anyway, this thread go derailed rather strongly by the confusion about hair. Am I the only one still confounded by the poem itself. Read it a few times now, its very confusing.

First of all, whats a "myriad"? It doesn't seem to be used in the normal sense meaning "a number of" (usually Many), but rather some kind of noun...
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: H on June 17, 2019, 05:24:52 pm
First of all, whats a "myriad"? It doesn't seem to be used in the normal sense meaning "a number of" (usually Many), but rather some kind of noun...

I think it might be two different contextual uses, although I can likely do it with one.

I, Imimorul, fled the Heavens,

so much did I love the brooks that chirrup,

the high mountains that hiss,

the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair,

This one is the most curious, but I part of it is that it is imply "many divisions."  Even though the idea of "bolting through" is not how we'd normally consider as the nature of division of hair.

I, Imimorul, did flee the Starving [sky], so much did I fear the Heavens,

the wrath of those who were wroth, who would forbid my love,

of the myriads of the World.

And you were as children to me,

the form of Gods as the issue of Lions, sons who would father nations,

and daughters who would mother the myriads of the World.[/i]

Here again though, I think this strongly implies a reading of "many divisions," as in many individuals, in use.  In the former case, as the many who were "wroth" and "who would forbid."  In the latter, the myriads are offspring, children to the "mother."  So, perhaps the aim here could be to draw the idea of hair on a body, being many divisions, then of the world, being divided into a "self" and "others," then the sort of "genesis" that is, the division born out through reproduction.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorûl
Post by: Wilshire on June 17, 2019, 05:50:11 pm
The World to him, who sings my song,

for I am the Font, the Spirit of the Deepest Deep,

and mine is the first heart to beat your blood.

The World to him, who sings my song.

This is Imimorul saying anyone that sings his song (the rest of the poem?) will get the World.
And that he is the proginator of those singers, which could technically be either the Nonmen or Humans?


I, Imimorul, fled the Heavens,

so much did I love the brooks that chirrup,

the high mountains that hiss,

the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair,

Imimorul was a God of some description who loved the world, and so left Heaven (The Outside) to live among the Inside.


The World to him, who raises up rooves in the Deep.

I, Imimorul, did flee the Starving [sky], so much did I fear the Heavens,

the wrath of those who were wroth, who would forbid my love,

of the myriads of the World.

Worth noting that the depths of the world seem to be the beginning of the world, or at least the parts Imimorul loves most deeply.

Feeling the Sky once he's in the world, afraid that the heavens could see/stop him. So he flees underground.

"Myriads of the world" here meaning all the different things of the world? Living creatures, plants, the ground and the caverns.


The World to her, who kindles her fire in the Deep.
More about the Holy Deep, but who is "her".


I, Imimorul, did cut from my hand my fingers,

and from my arm, my hand, and from my body, my arm,

and these pieces of me I did place in the wombs of Lions,

so that I might dwell content in my own company.

He cuts off his fingers, hand, arm. Gives the bits to Lions. These bits become his children (dwelling in his own company). Unless they become his clones, to literally dwell in his own company.


And I became One-Armed, Imimorul, the Unshielded.

This might have some poetic meaning beyond the obvious "shielded" because he cut off his shield arm.



And you were as children to me,

the form of Gods as the issue of Lions, sons who would father nations,

and daughters who would mother the myriads of the World.

The phalanges he put into lions become his children who sired nations.
Interestingly, its the Men who fathered nations.

The Nonmen Women are something of an enigma even here. They did not mother nations, but rather became "the myriads of the World". Earlier, it looks like myriads is being used to describe the inaniment world, or maybe both the ground/depths itself as well the creatures living among it.

Also, these Nonmen from Lions are not from women. It could be the nonmen women are not necessarily human-analogue shaped. That the nonmen actually are birth from the beasts of the world. Though, I don't think this really fits in with the lore we assume we know.


And I sang to you such songs as are only heard in the highest of Heavens, and nowhere in the Hells.

We did weep together, as we sang, for woe cares not for names or glory only that skin blackens for bruising, breaks for blood.

Heaven and NOT Hell. There are at least two distinct possibilities, no more. I'm not sure what the ramifications are for a hell that has no songs of nonmen.

And a penchant for remembering only sorrow, blood, and pain. Maybe the Erratics are no so different than what Nonmen always became later in life?



The World to him, who sings my song.

Pretty clear, discussed initially above


The World to him, who finds me in the Deep.

A final reference to what is basically The Holy Deep. This, if its the Nonmen creation myth, really explains why they are obsessed with the underground. It seems they believe their God lives in the Earth, not the Sky.



The World to him, and woe.

The suffering motif to end it. Not redemption or Eden, only more sorrow.  Maybe this is why they seek oblivion as well, someplace that is neither the Woe that is their god, nor the Hunger that is the Gods.