I don't see how those words are un-Kellhus like. Could easily be either or both of them speaking, to me.

Quote from: Baztek on August 03, 2017, 03:22:54 pm

So Kellhus needed Ajokli to get a leg up on the Consult to stop Resumption, great, but what was his endgame after that? Nigga you just struck a pact with the universe's Satan, the world is still open to the Gods, what're ya gonna do now? I don't get it.

I think he believed with sufficient mastery of the Daimos he could usurp Ajokli. He was very wrong.

I'm not entirely sure whether it was a failure to control Ajokli. I wouldn't be surprised it was part of the deal as well: For all intents and purpose, Kellhus should have died in Caraskand and he knows that. I think that, just as Saubon (the Mengedda-Dagliash flash-forward/ -back), he got a 20 years lease on life because he managed to convince Ajokli to take the deal.

On the whole, I currently largely agree with SuJoroit. I'll add the Kellhus part of my post from the DEM thread as my two kellics again.

Concerning Kellhus's power:
We get multiple descriptions of Kellhus's Mark throughout TAE. I got the impression it got deeper and deeper, and more blasted throughout the series, based on the subtle difference in adjectives used in the PoV of other protagonists throughout the series. I've entertained for long the possibility that Kellhus was either having people (Zaudunyani) killed to become more powerful himself (souls basically being dinner) in the Outside, resulting in more powerful magic.
After TUC, I'm expecting him having to sacrifice the Ordeal as a whole, as damned and deceived as possible (remember the Meat), was the price for Ajokli's assistance (since there'd be more dinner for him). I'd even go as far as suggesting that the sacrifice of the whole "maxxed out damned" and deceived (!!) ordeal was a necessity for Ajokli to assist Kellhus, which is why we in my perception get the horrific passages of the Ordeal going bananas both in TGO and TUC.
[...]

I agree hints have ben given throughout TAE that Kellhus had mastered the Daimos. The whole head on a pole sequence, rumours throughout TJE from the "foreign" protagonists, and even through Malowebi in his first TUC PoV. We even know he's been to the Outside through the Head on a Pole passage in TGO. The fact that he's made a deal with one of the gods was, in my opinion, extremely probable.

Also the Head on a Pole is, I was supposing, the tether to the world of the living. Similar to the thread binding a Ciphrang to the world. Now that I type this post, I'm inclined to think it's the reminder to Kellhus that he's alive. Think about the explanation of the Wathi doll: The soul is both living and dead, both in the real world and in the Outside. As long as the soul is alive, it cannot be claimed by the Outside. At the same time, the soul is not alive either because the body is still technically alive.

Maybe also from the quote we get from Aurang at Dagliash about the days being new "and far shorter than the old"? The quote did have me puzzled every time... This could explain.

Lo and behold!! It is in!!

Thank you all for the very supportive replies. Even though it's rough unsuspectingly opening a closet and finding yourself confronted with ghosts from the past, I'm okay and non-suicidal I just need to find out how to deal with this.
The fact that the books helped me recognize the situation is I think the biggest way they have impacted my life, I suppose.
That and the philosophies within the book make you think, and really evaluate other lines of thinking instead of just vaguely defining an idea.

In response to H about my remark about  Sorweel: You can't get much more alone in the dark than Sorweel right before Oirunas "kills" him. He "dies" through the Amiolas, basically alone without anyone including the gods setting him.

Going back to what Bakker said:

Quote

They had no difficulty killing themselves afterward, and he was their better, so why assume he would have difficulty?

Possibly they presumed he would kill himself.  I mean, they did and he, being their better, would too right?

Except what he learned was that exile was not death.  He learned he could survive, even thrive out there.  So he left instead.  The key, to go back to my first post, is that what he experienced outside Ishuäl is the key, not really any specific knowledge.

My brain got fried somewhere along the typing of the post below so logic might be a bit over the place, but I'll try anyway 
I'm going to quote this one and mention that I haven't read TUC yet and have not read Jackehehe's TUC spoiler either.

I refer to the chapter about the story of Korringhus's loss of innocence upon starting to kill Shriekers and Singers in TGO:
After an upbringing in a closed environment, such as a monastery, contact with the outside world will give you new insights.
Pushing forward along an interpretation I had earlier: The Dunyain Mind is bred and brought up to experience only Reason (aka the Logos) to the point of blunting all sense of emotions: There is no love or hate, nothing. They only learn how to recognize these in others during their training, and they can probably recognize them in the defectives, who are definitely Conditioned Ground.

Moënghus then encounters Sranc, which are most definitely Unconditioned Ground, which is important: He starts killing them Mindlessly, as they'll probably have attacked him on sight/ smell. His training in the recognition of emotions leads him to find out how Sranc emotions work (same as Korringhus), as there is no "cause" for their emotions, and therefore to conclude that  Effect does not necessarily imply Cause (and that Effect can determine Cause), totally opposing Dunyain logic. Explaining this as TTT starting to dawn upon him, is not unreasonable. Also, we received an explanation somewhere either in TJE or TWL that killing eventually has a numbing effect on souls: This is confirmed by Korringhus's story.

This understanding of emotions (combined with the killing) leads to Moënghus being able to reason with additional Probabilities, something the Elders cannot possibly conceive and therefore puts them at his mercy, which in turn leads to him going into exile. I agree that his exile must have been a litteral "going into exile", as opposed to "being forced into exile".

For Korringhus, as I interpret it, the above (assisted by Mimara's Judging Eye) eventually leads to understanding why he Mindlessly saved "the Boy" from the nursery by finally understanding what "The Interval Between Them" was and leading him to his Zero-God theory.
Note that the "Mindlessly" in the previous passages is a key requirement for the Enlightenment of Moënghus, Kellhus and Korringhus, as this opens the Mind for other influences. This implies acting without Cause, and therefore an Effect without Cause. The fun part of that, is that starting TGO, we also see the Men of the Ordeal degenerating little by little, likely because of the Meat combined with the dehumanization of crimes, into minds revolving around "Actions without Cause".

I think therefore that the whole chapter where Korringhus recounts what happened up to and including meeting Achamian and Mimara, is in my opinion a direct reference to what Moënghus and Kellhus experienced respectively 50 and 20 years earlier. We know from Kellhus that he received his insight in Caraskand. For Moënghus, the above does not appear unlikely to me.

As to Moënghus's choice for the Psukhê may have been an accident, but it can also have been a conscious choice. Seeing the power with which he wielded other people's emotions, it's not far-fetched to expect greater things from Cishaurim magic. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if he knew more about the Psukhe than we do... Face it, we don't know that much, and I wouldn't be surprised if TUC gives us more information on why the Cishaurim (bar Meppa) needed to be hunted to extinction.

Quote from: Parsh on July 06, 2017, 12:55:03 pm

Quote from: Monkhound on June 29, 2017, 07:22:29 am

They managed to rampage through Ishuäl just fine as well

Actually, they didn't rampage through Ishuäl that well: they tore down the walls well enough, but when the battle moved into the labyrinthine passages below Ishuäl, they got lost in its depths, they went even nuttier, and ended up burying themselves in desperate attempts to escape.

Sounds like rampaging to me lol. The hallmark of a rampage is kind of just general destruction to a specific location. Maybe I'm using the word wrong?

Indeed, rampage suggests general destruction and mayhem... That's happened :p

My hardcover is expected to be delivered on the 11th  So looking forward to it!!

Was there not a thing where skin-spies could recognise people and others by smell?