Earwa > The Great Ordeal
[TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
RedSetter4570:
I'm confused and disturbed by many things in Great Ordeal. But I do have to ask for further opinions on the Whale Mothers. It was surmised or stated (I had the audiobook so I can't cite the passage) that Dunyain women are different from men, bred for breeding, and such much larger, less able to move around. Yet Kellhus's 1/2 world born children, the girls at least, are either the hottest chick to ever spit sorcery, or a sranc-like being with superior intellect and the best dresses this side of Tim Gunn. I can't wrap my head around how that whole thing works, or how the biology of the Dunyain male/females allows such.
[EDIT Madness: For title. I know it seems tedious but it's so members who browse the recent topics, unread posts, or see which was the most recent thread posted in don't inadvertently spoil themselves.]
Cüréthañ:
Yeah, its pretty silly to me as well. And Khellus explicitly selects Esme as a breeding partner because of her superior intelligence - which makes no sense in light of the whale mothers and the fact that Khellus is well acquainted with Dunyain breeding practice. A real stumble in the world building - even if it's just a failure to foreshadow/explain whatever the rationale behind the dissonance is.
Should've just found a thick bodied healthy woman, nah?
edit; you double posted this thread man, I went ahead and deleted the other one for you ;)
RedSetter4570:
Thanks for the solid, guess I got over eager on hitting the post button!
Madness:
--- Quote from: Cüréthañ on July 21, 2016, 01:36:03 am ---Yeah, its pretty silly to me as well. And Khellus explicitly selects Esme as a breeding partner because of her superior intelligence - which makes no sense in light of the whale mothers and the fact that Khellus is well acquainted with Dunyain breeding practice. A real stumble in the world building - even if it's just a failure to foreshadow/explain whatever the rationale behind the dissonance is.
--- End quote ---
Call me foolish, Curethan, but I'm going to put it out there because it's sparked so much dissonance.
In the Q&A here, Bakker claimed to have had pieces of writing detailing the Whale-Mothers in TGO as far back as pre-TDTCB publication. It's possible there is something else going on here, in terms of being consistent with the world he's crafted?
Also, I've only the Westerosi or Wilshire to look to for really in-depth articulations - though, there was a thread on r/bakker too - about the biology of it all. What does happen to a broodmare? What happens to generations of broodmares? Doesn't Esmenet's composition affect matters at all? Certainly, Kellhus is much less likely to have a girl resembling the Whale-Mothers with Esmenet?
Cüréthañ:
I'm not sure of your contention aside from the possibility of more successful daughters.
I mean, even there we have foreshadowing that seems to dismiss that possibility; where previous volumes' "what has come before" state that Khellus requires sons.
Sure, there is the probability that there is more going on, but that isn't really the point as far as my dissatisfaction (except insofar as there is no hint of anything more going on).
I look at it as a world-building issue for now. I mean that in terms of consistency from a reader's perspective, something Bakker is usually very, very good at in my eyes. And for me it is worse than 'why not Chorae plus Wracu?'.
The whale-mothers just contradict many implications of character actions, in-world consequence and assumptions from real-world experience without much set-up or explanation. It is used as the premier example of why the Dunyain are objectively evil and then simply left at that without further edification.
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