Since my previous thread evolved into a discussion about Mimara, the JE, and her abilities and status as a prophet, I figured it was best to create a brand new thread to continue that particular avenue of discussion.

Right now I don't have anything else to add, but I'll look into a few quotes/passages and see what I can find.

It's already technically Monday over here, so let the discussion begin!

And the Nonman King cried words that sting:
"Now to me you must confess,
For death above you hovers!"
And the Emissary answered ever wary:
"We are the race of flesh,
We are the race of lovers."
--"BALLAD OF THE INCHOROI", ANCIENT KÛNIÜRI FOLK SONG

It's Monday, let's put this show on the road!

Kings never lie. They demand the world be mistaken.
--CONRIYAN PROVERB

When we truly apprehend the Gods, the Nilnameshi sages say, we recognize them not as kings but thieves. This is among the wisest of blasphemies, for we always see the king who cheats us, never the thief.
--OLEKAROS, AVOWALS

As I mentioned in the Quorum today, back when I was an active member at the Podcast of Ice and Fire forum, we had this thing going where we'd draw an MS Paint version of every chapter for a given book in the series (one thread per book, starting, of course, at the beginning of the series). Anyone who wanted to join would claim a chapter and then post their depiction of it in the thread (using nothing but MS Paint) whenever they could (no time limits here). It was quite fun at times, and it was always great to see what different people came up with (and what particular scene(s) they chose to focus on in their drawing).
Like I said in the Quorum, TSA doesn't need to be all grimdark all the time, it can be amusing, as most of you may agree. This would also give everyone who doesn't have amazing drawing skills (like yours truly) the chance to create some actual TSA fanart.

So, would anyone be interested?


EDIT: As this is a small community, if enough people end up joining, I don't see why we couldn't have two (or more) versions of the same chapter. That just didn't happen in the APOIAF forums because it was a much bigger community, and people wanted to avoid having dozens of versions of the same chapter.

I figured it would be a good idea to make a thread for death predictions pre-series. That way, anyone who happens to be right can smugly say they called it.
Anyone who's feeling adventurous can speculate on actual causes of death for extra points.


My own ideas about who will die are still very fuzzy (especially since there aren't that many characters 100% confirmed to still be alive by the end of TUC), but as of now I feel rather confident that Achamian and Esmenet will both die during this series (even if just close to the end). My (admittedly not very strong) reasoning: Achamian, Cnaiür, Kellhus, Esmenet and Serwë were the five main characters (per the character and faction glossary) at the beginning of TSA. Serwë was the first to die in TWP, Cnaiür appeared to die in TTT only to survive and actually die in TUC (his physical body was disintegrated, I'm choosing to disregard current theories and count him as dead), and Kellhus died in TUC (again, ignoring all the theories). Achamian and Esmenet are the last of the "old guard", and not only among those top 5 - pretty much all characters that had had a role of at least some significance during PON and survived the events of that series died during TAE (Maithanet, Proyas, Saubon, Iyokus, Fanayal, Aurang, Mekeritrig...). It would make thematic sense for these two last remaining characters to die at the end of the second apocalypse as (hopefully) a new age begins.

I'm referring to this passage:

Sees a slender Ciphrang hanging as high as the future, showering the earth with death-a witch, wet with the fires of damnation, burns heaped upon burns.

I still can't understand why Serwa (who is at most 17 years old at this point) would be so damned as to qualify as a potential Ciphrang. Sure, she is a witch, but Mimara looked at Nil'giccas, who had been using sorcery for thousands of years, with the Judging Eye and did not see him as a Ciphrang. Unlike characters such as Cnaiür or Kosoter, Serwa isn't responsible for decades of murder, rape, torture, destruction, etc. So what exactly is the factor (or factors) that make Serwa into a potential Ciphrang?

By now you all must be tired of seeing this kind of posts from me. But anyway, I figured it would be a good idea to get all of the series' inconsistencies and mistakes that I (and anyone else who wants to add some) notice over time.

I'll provide links to posts if the inconsistency/mistake has been pointed out/discussed in previous threads. I am aware some of these might be intentional on Bakker's part (and I'm sure someone will point that out) but I'm going to listen them all the same. Besides, I have a hard time believing some of the ones pertaining to fairly recent history in-universe are intentional...
So, here's what I found, in rough chronological (in-series) order:



Amrezzer the Black's lifespan

Amrezzer the Black (1753-1897)--Legendary Surartu Grandmaster responsible for securing the river fortress of Kiz in Far Antique Carythusal, c. 1800, called the "Black" for his propensity to burn down the homes of those opposed to him.

From those dates, he would have lived to be 143-144 years old. Could Bakker mean 1797 rather than 1897?
However, as Amrezzer lived millennia before the series' events, it's likely that it could be a deliberate inconsistency. Or he really did live that long and chanv (or something similar) was involved?



The name of Nau-Cayûti's mother

The name of Nau-Cayûti's mother is initially given as Sharal.

He and Celmomas would become estranged during this time, apparently because Celmomas resented Seswatha's influence over his youngest son, Nau-Cayûti, but legends have long circulated that Nau-Cayûti was in fact Seswatha's son, the product of an illicit union between him and Sharal, the most prized of Celmomas's wives.

In one of Achamian's dreams in TJE, however, her name is given as Suriala:

When he found her--Suriala, glorious and wanton Suriala--he knelt in accordance with the very Laws he was about to break.

I'll admit that this might also be a deliberate inconsistency... And/or maybe Sharal and Suriala could be variants of the same name? (The same name in two different languages?) They look similar enough for that.



The death of En-Kaujalau

In 2141, the Consult returned to the offensive, wrongly thinking the Kûniüri crippled by the loss of their greatest and most beloved son. But Nau-Cayûti's mead-brothers proved themselves able, even brilliant, commanders. At the Battle of Skothera, the Sranc hordes were crushed by General En-Kaujalau, though he died of mysterious causes within weeks of this victory (according to The Sagas, he was another victim of Iëva and her poisons, but again this is disputed by Mandate scholars).

But in the "Iëva" entry from the TUC glossary, we learned she had died the previous year...

Iëva (2112-2140)--Legendary wife of Anasûrimbor Nau-Cayûti, tried and executed for his murder in 2140.

Once again, this might be deliberate. Maybe that's even what the "this is disputed by Mandate scholars" bit refers to? They would know for a fact Iëva predeceased En-Kaujalau via Seswatha, while The Sagas were written quite a while after the Apocalypse (if I remember correctly) and the order of events might have been more muddled by that point.



Sorgis dynasty and where it falls in the timeline

Homirras, Ersa (3972-4025)--Author of The Ten Thousand Day Dynasty, a history of the short-lived ascendency of House Sorgis in Nansur, banned both by the Ikurei and the Anasûrimbor, allegedly for arguing that power corrupts rather than purifies souls. He would die in the Tower of Ziek in 4025.

This is all we know about the Sorgis dynasty. If the Eärwan year is about the same length of ours, that would mean this dynasty was in power for ~27 years. The problem is, while working on the wiki entries of the other Imperial Houses, I've realized that the Sorgis dynasty doesn't really fit anywhere.
From the "Nansur Empire" and "Ikurei Dynasty" entries in both glossaries (bolding of dates mine):

It was under the Trimus Emperors (3411-3508) that the "Nansur" (the traditional name for the district surrounding Momemn) emerged from the chaos following Cenei's destruction to unify the Kyranae plains. But true Imperial expansion did not occur until the Zerxei Dynasty (3511-3619), which, under the rule of successive and short-lived Emperors, managed to conquer Shigek (3539), Enathpaneah (3569), and the Sacred Lands (3574).
Under the Surmante Emperors (3619-3941), the Nansurium enjoyed its greatest period of growth and military ascendancy, culminating in the rule of Surmante Xatantius I (3644-93), who subdued the Cepaloran tribes as far north as the Vindauga River, and who even managed to capture the ancient Nilnameshi capital of Invishi, thus very nearly restoring all the so-called Western Empire that had once belonged to Cenei.

Ikurei Dynasty--Always one of the more powerful Houses of the Congregate, the Ikurei seized the Imperial Mantle in 3941, capitalizing on the turmoil following the loss of Shigek and then Gedea to Kian in the Dagger Jihad. Ikurei Sorius I became the first of a line of shrewd yet defensive Ikurei Emperors.

Therefore, we have:
-Trimus Dynasty from 3411-3508 (this being the first dynasty);
-Zerxei Dynasty from 3511-3619;
-Surmante Dynasty from 3619-3941;
-Ikurei Dynasty from 3941-4112 (as we know from TTT and onwards).
There's not really any time there for House Sorgis' reign to have taken place, apart from those 3 years between the Trimus and Zerxei dynasties. And 3 years does not equal 10000 days (unless the Eärwan year actually is that long, but that would only raise further issues).



Reigns of the Ikurei Emperors

The Nansur Empire is full of inconsistencies, as it turns out...
Remember when Conphas mentioned a particular ancestor of his in his POV?

As always, Conphas glanced at the spot where Ikurei Anphairas, his great-great-grandfather, had been assassinated more than a century before.

We get an entry for Anphairas in the TTT glossary (the TUC one is slightly different, but keeps the dates):

Ikurei Anphairas I (4022-81)--The Emperor of Nansur from 4066 to 4081, and grandfather of Ikurei Xerius III, assassinated by persons unknown.

Inconsistency #1: Conphas' great-great-grandfather would have been Xerius' great-grandfather, not his grandfather.
Inconsistency #2: The chapter where Conphas mentions him takes place in late autumn of 4111. Going by the date given in the glossary, Anphairas had been dead for ~30 years at that point, not over a century.
But wait, it gets even more inconsistent...
Throughout PON, we get the idea that Xerius became Emperor at a young age. There are these quotes about how his mother seducing him led to his murder of his father:

Those words! Tremors spilled into Xerius's hands. He clasped them together. Attempted to gather his thoughts. Looked away from their wolfish faces. All those years ago! Fumbling with a small black vial the size of a child's finger, pouring the poison into his father's ear. His father!

The old, insatiable Empress alone was indispensable. Those times, in his youth, when she had awakened him in the heart of night, stroking his cock, tormenting him with pleasure, cooing into his tongue-wet ear: "Emperor Xerius ... Can you feel it, my lovely, godlike son?"

Not to mention how long Skeaös was said to have been serving as his Prime Counsel:

"My Prime Counsel ... of thirty years."

This could still make sense if Xerius' unnamed father became Emperor in 4081 following Anphairas' death and had an extremely short reign before being murdered by his son.
We do know Xerius' age from the TTT glossary, though:

Ikurei Xerius III (4059-)--The Emperor of the Nansur Empire.

This would make Xerius 21-22 at the time of Anphairas' death, which, while not directly contradicting anything that has been said before, does not sound quite right. It would make more sense to have Anphairas die earlier, giving it more time for Xerius' father to have a longer reign and for Xerius to have succeeded his father at a young age.
There is still another inconsistency regarding Xerius' age, but this entry is long enough already, so that one is listed separately below.



Extinction of the line of Nejata Medekki and where it falls in the timeline

Discussion on that can be found here.



Xerius' age

We have this passage from Xerius' POV:

He had received innumerable petitioners in his forty-five years, embassies of war and peace from across the Three Seas, but as Skeaös had said, he had never hosted an audience such as this.

This takes place in early summer of 4110. As mentioned above, Xerius' birth year is given as 4059. Therefore, he would be 50-51 at this time, not 45.
Much like in the case of Theliopa in TJE mentioned below, I believe this was something later retconned by Bakker in the glossary.



Cnaiür's age and birth year

Birth year estimations and discussion of the existing inconsistencies can be found here and here.



Obwë Gûswuran's birth year

We get this from his glossary entry (bolding of the date mine):

Gûswuran, Obwë (4178-)--Ordealman, Grandmaster of the Mysunsai in the Great Ordeal of Anasûrimbor Kellhus, renowned for his religious zealotry, a character trait never before seen in the so-called "Mercenary School".

His year of birth is very obviously wrong, presumably Bakker meant 4078.



Xarotas Harnilas' birth year

This case is very much the same as Obwë Gûswuran's above (again, bolding of date mine):

Harnilas, Xarotas (4187-4132)--Ordealman, Kidruhil Captain of the Scions, a unit consisting of treaty hostages.

Bakker presumably meant 4087 here.



The Battle of Maän and how it relates to Proyas' age

This is the first time this battle is mentioned in the series (bolding mine):

"That man there," the Prince continued, gesturing to a thick-waisted Tydonni beyond the Galeoth, "is Hoga Gothyelk, Earl of Agansanor and elected leader of the contingent from Ce Tydonn. Before I was born, my father was bested by him at the Battle of Maän. He calls his limp 'Gothyelk's gift.'"

From the glossaries (bolding of date mine):

Battle of Maän--A minor battle fought between Conriya and Ce Tydonn in 4092.

Proyas was young during the First Holy War, sure, but he can't have been born in or after 4092...remember that second tutor of his, Charamemas, who replaced Achamian? (again, bolding of date mine)

Charamemas (4036-4108)--The famed Shrial commentator and author of The Ten Holies. Achamian's replacement as Proyas's tutor in exoterics in 4093.

Maybe the Battle of Maän was supposed to have taken place in 4082 instead?



Abbarsallas' year of death and how it relates to when Mimara was sold into slavery

Discussed here.



Thurhig Bogyar's birth year

Again, similar to the cases of Gûswuran and Harnilas above (once more, bolding of date mine):

Bogyar, Thurhig (4000-4132)--Holca Ordealman, descendant of the famed Thurror Eryelk, and Spearbearer to Coithus Saubon during the Great Ordeal.

Since I have no recollection of the Holca having ridiculously long lifespans in addition to their two hearts (feel free to correct me), I'm going to go ahead and guess Bakker meant 4100 here.



The name of Proyas' father

I actually already mentioned this somewhere in the TUC subforum last summer, but as it is a simple inconsistency, I'll explain it here again.
The name of Proyas' father is first given in TTT as Eukernas II:

On another occasion, they encountered a party of Tydonni footmen-some of Lord Iyengar's Nangaels, it turned out-bearing a fresh boar hoisted above them on the points of some seven or eight spears, an ancient rite of vassalage that Achamian had once witnessed in the court of Proyas's father, Eukernas II.

He is not named again until TUC, where his name has apparently been changed to Onoyas:

On his deathbed, proud Onoyas had called for his son knowing he would not come ...

Not so high above, the bound form of Proyas, blessed son of Queen Thaila and King Onoyas, swayed on slow revolutions ...

Sirol ab Kascamandri's birth year

Sirol ab Kascamandri (4004-)--The youngest daughter of Kascamandri ab Tepherokar.

If Sirol had been born in 4004, she'd be 107-108 during TWP/TTT... I'm guessing Bakker meant 4104 (making her 7-8 years old at the time).



Sonhail Hortha's death year

This was originally pointed out by Mondoënghus here.
From the glossary (once again, bolding of date mine):

Hortha, Sonhail (4064-4121)--Man-of-the-Tusk, Galeoth knight, client to Prince Coithus Saubon, whelmed as a Judge following the conquest of Shimeh, only to be found murdered in Aöknyssus under suspicious circumstances some six months afterward.

The conquest of Shimeh took place in the spring of 4112, adding six months to that would place Hortha's death around the autumn of 4112, not 4121.



Hringa Rauschang's year of death

Once more, bolding of date mine:

Rauschang, Hringa (4054-4014)--The King of Thunyerus and father of Skaiyelt and Hulwarga.

4114 is likely the year meant here.



Coithus Agabon's birth year

I mentioned this before as well, but it's also a small thing, so here it is again.

Agabon, Coithus (4124-4132)--Ordealman and youngest son of King Coithus Narnol, among the first to perish on the Great Ordeal's trek across the Istyuli Plains.

If Agabon had been born in 4124, he'd just be 7-8 years old as of 4132...it's likely that the intended year of birth here was 4114 (making him 17-18).



Theliopa's age

Regarding this quote:

The sixteen-year-old could scarce look at another's face, so deep was her horror of chancing upon a gaze.

First discussed by Werthead and me here (in the linked post and the ones following it), and you also have my estimation for Thelli's year of birth here. Basically, there's no way she could be 16 (even if she'd still turn 17 that year) during TAE because of how it would affect Serwa and Inrilatas' respective ages.
I suppose this could be considered as having been retconned (as Werthead suggested) given the Nenciphon temporal reference in the TUC glossary (the one I base my estimation on)?



Timing of Mimara's flight from the Andiamine Heights

In TUC, Mimara thinks of how she fled the Andiamine Heights the previous winter:

The whole of her life awaited her in those canvas slums-everyone she had fled the previous winter ... Serwa ... Kayûtas ... What would she say? How could she explain? And her stepfather--what would Anasûrimbor Kellhus do with what he saw in her face?

But in the second part of the TJE prologue (the one after Kelmomas' Whelming), which takes place in the late autumn of 4131, we learn from Kelmomas' POV that Mimara had already fled the Andiamine Heights by that point:

"Are you thinking of her, Mommy?" he asked. Between the two of them, "her" always meant Mimara, her first daughter, the one she loved with the most desperation--and hated.
The one the secret voice had told him to drive away.

I know, I know, this one is very nitpicky on my part, because Mimara could have left very recently by the time of the prologue, could be misremembering the exact time of year she left after everything that happened since then, etc.



The date of the Momemn chapters during TGO and TUC

The date at the beginning of the later Momemn chapters of TGO (chapters 11 and 16) and chapter 1 of TUC is given as:

Mid-Autumn, 20 New Imperial Year (4132, Year-of-the-Tusk)

However, every single TUC chapter after the first has a date of:

Early Autumn, 20 New Imperial Year (4132, Year-of-the-Tusk)

So, the date on the aforementioned three chapters should be early autumn of 4132 as well. I'm assuming this (in TUC at least) was something from an earlier draft that wasn't changed?



Who is the Biaxi Patridomos as of TAE

Pointed out here.




I'll add more to the main post as I find them.