"Does it trouble you that I can watch men from their fires?" Kellhus asked.
"If anything, it heartens me..." he replied. "I marched with you in the First Holy War, remember? I know full well the capricious humour of armies stranded far from home."
"The Men of the Ordeal do not march to save the World, Proyas—at least not first and foremost. They march to save their wives and their children. Their tribes and their nations. If they learn that the world, their world, slips into ruin behind them, that their wives and daughters may perish for want of their shields, their swords, the Host of Hosts would melt about the edges, then collapse."
"My Lord and Salvation?" [Proyas] called to the empty air. The wheeze and pop of the hearth's fire filled the silence. Its light mottled the hanging walls with wavering patterns of light and dark. It almost seemed he could glimpse images in the dancing blur. Cities burning. Faces.
As far as Sorweel could tell, the single thing that distinguished their group from the other Scions was geography. Where the others hailed from recalcitrant tribes and nations within the New Empire, they represented the few lands that still exceeded its grasp—at least until recently. “Between us we have the Aspect-Emperor surrounded!”Zsoronga would sometimes cry in joking terms.
But it was no joke, Sorweel had come to realize. Zsoronga, who would one day be Satakhan of High Holy Zeüm, the only nation that could hope to rival the New Empire, was cultivating friendships according to the interests of his people. He avoided the others simply because the Aspect-Emperor was renowned for his devious subtlety. Because spies had almost certainly been planted among the Scions.
To act without understanding. This, this he had decided, was the essential kernel, the spark that made worship worship. In High Ainon, during the fevered height of the Unification Wars, he had overseen the Sack of Sarneveh, an act of brutality that still jarred him from sleep from time to time. Afterward, when the Mathematicians reported that more than five thousand children had been counted among the dead, Proyas began shaking, a flutter that began with his fingers and bowel but soon climbed through his every bone. He dismissed his staff and vomited, wept, only to find him standing in the gloom of his pavilion, watching. “You should grieve,”the Aspect-Emperor said, his figure etched in a faint glow. “But do not think you have sinned. The World overmatches us, Proyas, so we make simple what we cannot otherwise comprehend. Nothing is more complicated than virtue and sin. All the atrocities you have committed in my name—all of them have their place. Do you understand this, Proyas? Do you understand why you will never understand?”
Yeah, since reading the WLW the first time I have thought he was willing to concede the empire to chaos after he marched on Golgotterath. I agree that the empire is just a means to the GO. I don't yet know why he is trying to save humanity. I feel like the last we clearly saw from his POV in TTT, was that he wanted to save humanity. He killed Moe because he believed Moe would eventually side with the Consult and thus destroy humanity. Since we haven't seen anything to in the AE to contradict his goal of saving mankind, it's hard to assume he is doing anything otherwise. I think the real surprise will be in how he fails and what implications that failure has.
QuoteAs far as Sorweel could tell, the single thing that distinguished their group from the other Scions was geography. Where the others hailed from recalcitrant tribes and nations within the New Empire, they represented the few lands that still exceeded its grasp—at least until recently. “Between us we have the Aspect-Emperor surrounded!”Zsoronga would sometimes cry in joking terms.
But it was no joke, Sorweel had come to realize. Zsoronga, who would one day be Satakhan of High Holy Zeüm, the only nation that could hope to rival the New Empire, was cultivating friendships according to the interests of his people. He avoided the others simply because the Aspect-Emperor was renowned for his devious subtlety. Because spies had almost certainly been planted among the Scions.
I can't recall if any of these kids die in this book but I wonder if Bakker is introducing the confederates who fight against Kellhus or his godhood in the third series.
Fucking heartbreaking how Proyas and his piety have been played into a life of genocide and atrocity. It hits so hard because we saw his despair in the first trilogy to do the right thing in a world of compromise and how he kinda deserts in Shimeh at the end. Also like how the paragraph begins and ends, with his lack of understanding, cementing how he's been willingly deceived. And later in the book, Kellhus is revealing it to him, owning up to everything in the Compendium.
The thing about the Dunyain is they almost always tell the truth, even when they have ulterior motives. He may very will defeat the Consult but I think there's something else he wants.
I don't recall if he actually thinks about saving the world, that's only what he and Moe say to eachother and we know everything they say is to gain advantage over another. And interspersed throughout this dialog, Achamian is explaining to Esmenet that everything Kellhus accomplished and that they've experienced is based on a lie. Kellhus does think a Dunyain would join the Consult before killing Moe, but he himself is already halfway down the path he envisioned there.
I also think that in the pursuit of the Absolute, the Dunyain will do anything to escape the machinations of others. When Kellhus is sent to kill Moenghus, he only resolves to dwell in his father's house. H had speculated that when he realizes how preconditioned his path has been, he then resolves to kill Moenghus. Now, the only intent remaining that holds any sway over him is the Thousandfold Thought. If it's truly a plan to save the world, what are the implications that he will try to subvert is influence in order to become a self-moving soul?
Tl;dr - everything Kellhus does is to control circumstance; how will he overcome the Thousandfold Thought, the last remaining circumstance that comes before him?
Yea, I like both of your thoughts. I've never considered that Kellhus wouldn't want to be steered by another, no matter how obvious it now seems. I like where y'all are going with this.