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Messages - SmilerLoki

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586
The Unholy Consult / Re: Apparently, we've missed something about the Consult that we should have noticed
« on: August 01, 2017, 02:12:37 pm »
There are interesting things about Viri in the Glossary.

First we have:
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult", the Encyclopaedic Glossary - "Consult"
The Mangaecca raised Nogaral upon Viri soon after, pretending to plumb the destroyed Nonman Mansion while in fact plumbing the Upright Horn—the intact heart of the Incû-Holoinas.
But then:
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult", the Encyclopaedic Glossary
Dagliash—“Shieldhold” (Ûmeri). The ancient Aörsic fortress overlooking the River Sursa and the Plains of Agongorea, raised in 1601 by Nanor-Mikhus, High-King of Aörsi, upon the ruins of Viri.

Also found the quote on Viri that interested me most in TUC:
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult", Chapter Seventeen
“There were three of us,” Mekeritrig continued, raising his eyes to the Inverse Fire. “Wise Misariccas, cold and cruel Rûnidil, and myself. We were wary. Sil had managed to turn not just Nin-janjin, but all of the Viri—a people famed for their mulish will! We knew it had something to do with this place ...”

587
The Unholy Consult / Re: Heron Spear?
« on: August 01, 2017, 01:57:14 pm »
We have this quote from the Encyclopaedic Glossary.

Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult"
Black Iron Seat—The throne of the Nonman King of Ishterebinth, hewn from the spot where, during the Siege of Ishterebinth (2147-9), Aurang struck the ensorcelled Mirinotic Gates with the Sun Lance (sister of the Heron Spear) before it exploded. The impact crater forms the seat of the throne, with the slag thrown by the strike constituting the back and sides, and the remaining thickness of the Gate making the base.
Underscoring's mine.

588
The Unholy Consult / Re: Apparently, we've missed something about the Consult that we should have noticed
« on: August 01, 2017, 12:20:44 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on August 01, 2017, 11:40:29 am
Quote from: SmilerLoki on August 01, 2017, 11:21:01 am
The only two possibly relevant things that come to my mind at this point are as follows:

1. The Consult pulled Nin’ciljiras out from somewhere to install him in Ishterebinth as the last Nonman King.
Can you explain this, I don't think I follow. What's the implication?
I'm completely unsure here, but this bothers me. Nin’ciljiras was a direct descendant of Nin'janjin, who joined the Inchoroi during the Cûno-Inchoroi Wars. It's unlikely he was alone (some Sons of Viri rebelled against their King at the sight of the Inchoroi, but only some). And while Nin'janjin died, other Nonmen (like Aporitics) might have worked with the Inchoroi way before any Erratics joined the Consult in search of trauma. So while Aurax and Aurang where the last of the Inchoroi when found by Mangaecca, there might have been Nonmen hidden in the Ark with them. The sudden appearance of a descendant of Nin'janjin, a supreme traitor in the eyes of his own race, seems to correlate with this theory.

There were also, I think, some mentions of Viri's treachery in TUC that might be relevant, but I can't find them without re-reading the book.

Quote from: Wilshire on August 01, 2017, 11:40:29 am
Assuming you are right, follow up question, is that of major importance? With the NG and an army of sranc, I'm not sure the Consult really need a school. Or, I guess the real question, do you think this is what Bakker is hinting at that we missed?
I don't think anything is as important as the Whirlwind walking again. Also we were supposed to pick up on whatever we've missed, so it's probably a stroke that complements the whole picture, not significantly changes it.

589
The Unholy Consult / Re: Apparently, we've missed something about the Consult that we should have noticed
« on: August 01, 2017, 11:21:01 am »
The only two possibly relevant things that come to my mind at this point are as follows:

1. The Consult pulled Nin’ciljiras out from somewhere to install him in Ishterebinth as the last Nonman King.

2. Mangaecca was a whole School, not just Shauriatas by himself. The Mutilated say that he was the only one who resisted them and was undone. It's unlikely the implied others are exclusively Aurax, Aurang, and Mekeretrig, since at that point Kellhus met every single one of those three (not to mention they obviously weren't undone and replaced by holograms).

590
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Decapitants.
« on: August 01, 2017, 07:49:14 am »
Quote from: themerchant on July 25, 2017, 01:50:40 pm
Also madness this board is taking ages for me to type anything on it, press the keys looks like it is stuck, then 10 seconds later it all starts to type out including all the stuypif shit i pushed while i thought it was stuck.
If you have the rotating gears on the right of the screen that offer you to choose your primary color when clicked, then you should block those (presuming you have AdBlock). They are extremely poorly optimized and have an inordinate toll on CPU. I can PM you the AdBlock filter code for getting rid of them.

591
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi souls
« on: August 01, 2017, 07:07:03 am »
Quote from: littlegrice on August 01, 2017, 12:32:56 am
Also, I seem to remember one of the Inchoroi (or one of the Consult) saying they had reduced other worlds to 144,000, only to find themselves still damned
That was Wutteat in Sauglish.

592
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The effects of Chorae
« on: August 01, 2017, 06:04:22 am »
Quote from: Cynical Cat on August 01, 2017, 02:55:01 am
I remember it.  There's a line about Nonmen Quya who are so deeply Marked that they'll apparently start salting within an armslength of a Chorae.
The way I've read it, something similar happens to Serwa when she catches a Skylvendi arrow at the beginning of TUC and her arm and fist are superficially salted. She didn't touch a Chorae that was affixed to the arrow, it just came close to her body.

593
Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: August 01, 2017, 05:55:22 am »
@Cû'jara-Cinmoi

Thank you for your answers to my questions and those of others! It's all very helpful and exciting.

594
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]Decapitant, Baby or his own Niché
« on: July 31, 2017, 01:55:33 pm »
Quote from: MSJ on July 31, 2017, 01:51:28 pm
Oh, he needed Ajokli so he wouldnt be overcome Inverse Fire and be a slave to it and automatically go over to the Dunsult.
That could have been accomplished just by striking a deal with Ajokli, for all we know.

595
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]Kellhus-Decapitant, Baby or his own Niché in the Outside
« on: July 31, 2017, 01:29:40 pm »
Quote from: Tyrin on July 31, 2017, 01:05:31 pm
I mean, what did Ajokli accomplish? Killing one Dunyain and then allowing Kellhus to be salted? Kellhus could've managed to get himself salted quite trivially without Ajokli's intervention. The Kellhus-betraying-Ajokli interpretation only works if Ajokli actually accomplished something AND THEN was tricked by Kellhus. Since this didn't happen, we're basically left with two options: 1)Kellhus fucked up and got salted, didn't plan for this possibility and is uber-fucked (though Ajokli still can't find him) OR 2)Kellhus fucked up and got salted but has a contingency plan and is hiding, which is why Ajokli can't find him.
I'm completely on board with this line of reasoning.

There is, though, one notable possibility. Kellhus needed Ajokli in the material world as some kind of tool (a spanner in the works, perhaps), but could only accomplish this by being possessed. From that point on he needed to end the possession, which was accomplished in the Golden Room. It's unclear that Kellhus actually wanted to defeat the Dunsult at that moment. Many of his statements seem to imply he actually wanted them to succeed, at least partially. Then it's conceivable he might use their success to his own end. Unlike devices of Tekne, which need to be scrutinized to gain understanding of them (as opposed to the Dunsult, Kellhus had no opportunity to do so), the No-God has metaphysical significance; Kellhus potentially could have surmised its nature and effect and planned for them.

The only thing that seems to contradict this theory is Kellhus's surprise when he sees Kelmomas in the Golden Room. But we can't really trust Kellhus. On the other hand, there were four other Dunyain there, who could have seen through his deception and work out his overarching plan from there.

All of this also doesn't mean Kellhus is on the side of humanity. As a Dunyain, it's very likely his goal is to master his circumstances completely.

I do think Kellhus is not done for, but next time he appears, it would be in a diminished state. By design or by contingency, though, I cannot presently say.

596
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The effects of Chorae
« on: July 31, 2017, 11:53:12 am »
Quote from: Cynical Cat on July 31, 2017, 11:50:46 am
As for Mimara seeing her as being a Ciphrang while living, that's also the territory of Cnaiur and the Captain and neither of them were sorcerers.
Indeed. I also edited my post above, providing a quote from "The Last Whelming".

597
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The effects of Chorae
« on: July 31, 2017, 11:41:44 am »
Quote from: Cynical Cat on July 31, 2017, 11:38:19 am
Being damned isn't the same as having the Mark.
As far as I remember Mimara always strongly connected a sorcerer's damnation with their Mark. At least that was my reading of her judgments. It always seemed very interesting to me.

Got a quote from "The Last Whelming":
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult"
She glares up into Serwa’s face, struck yet again by the heinous profundity of the witch’s Mark—as deep as any sorcerer of rank despite her tender years.

598
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The effects of Chorae
« on: July 31, 2017, 11:34:27 am »
Quote from: Cynical Cat on July 31, 2017, 11:15:46 am
Remember that the Witch Most Holy is young.  Her Mark isn't as deep as middle aged Akka
Pretty sure she has one of the most severe Marks in the series. It's supported by Mimara seeing her as "slender Ciphrang", and Mimara never referenced Achamian in such strong terms. I seem to remember there was a passage somewhere (probably around the Last Whelming) stating that Serwa's Mark is deeper than that of Cleric. Not 100% certain, though. [edit] Couldn't find any such passage, so the quote in my post below is a more accurate assessment of Serwa's Mark.

My guess is it has something to do with her Metagnostic proficiency.

599
The Unholy Consult / Re: Dunyains on earth?
« on: July 30, 2017, 03:35:13 pm »
Do we even have a purchase on self without drives that agitate our minds?

600
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]Deus Ex Machina - Implausibilities - Running out of Steam
« on: July 30, 2017, 02:55:15 pm »
Quote from: Spooky on July 30, 2017, 02:45:41 pm
"I meant the finale and denouement to be confusing/inspire vigorous disagreement/cause spontaneous outrage on all available niche sites" said no honest serious writer or communicator ever.
I'm confused. Why is this a bad thing?

Quote from: Spooky on July 30, 2017, 02:45:41 pm
Oh and we are all just pretending the pandering Cunny loving 100 foot Dragon dialogue wasn't there, right? Because it felt like Scott was talking to his critics from the first firestorm he became embroiled in, with the feminists.
I've actually read that moment as quite epic. And funny, which did not diminish its darkness in any way. I even specifically cited it to one of my friends.

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