[mrganondorf]

If a 144k sacrifice is required, the we'd better keep track of the body count on the way to Golgotterath.  Perhaps Kellhus reckoned that starting at 280,000 would give him enough bodies to kill at the Ark minus those lost along the way.

This would also help explain why Mog arises during the first ordeal--there was a lack of corpses until the good guys showed up!

[Wilshire]

I feel like the Inchoroi themselves could collect 144k living bodies. This doesn't seem like a likely solution.

[mrganondorf]

I feel like the Inchoroi themselves could collect 144k living bodies. This doesn't seem like a likely solution.

I just have this hunch that somehow the first Ordeal *enabled* the No-God's birth in some way.  That Seswatha's attempt to prevent Mog ironically created the perfect condition for his arrival.  Maybe in a way that the Consult are not even aware of.

[The Sharmat]

I believe that the 144k and the No-God are seperate. The 144k is the goal to shut off contact with the outside. The No-God however does that on its own, merely by existing. Before they arrived on Earwa, it was merely a hypothetical or failed theory. Without sorcery, their tekne simply couldn't realize the No-God's existence, and it remained pure conjecture. When they came to Earwa, and exchanged knowledge with the Maengaecca, the unity of Technology with Sorcery allowed them to finally bridge the gaps and create the No-God. If the No-God exists, they don't have to reduce the world to 144k souls. The No-God cuts off the world from the Outside by itself. That is why no children are born alive. No soul can cross from the outside to inhabit their corpse. They're either cut off, or swallowed by the metaphysical singularity of Mog-Pharau.

[Cüréthañ]

Yeah, but the fact of Mog's existence wasn't a permanent solution, was it.  "The souls that encounters him passes no further".

I think the fact that the war continued after Mog rose demonstrates that there was more work to be done, otherwise they could have just waited for humans to die out naturally.
Also, there is the issue of the Scylvendi, the fact that sorcery still worked whilst Mog was about and the delivery of the Celmoman prophecy even as Mog 'tasted' the fallen king's soul.

Sticking with the idea that Mog was an improvement on the 144k thing and that critical mass was about to be achieved at Mengedda. 

[The Sharmat]

During the First Apocalypse there were powers hostile to the Consult that didn't have to cross a continent of Sranc to assault the No-God. I think they were just being proactive in defending its existence.

[Cüréthañ]

I'm not sure how that works, Sharmat.
The North was crushed, perhaps Ishterberinth could offer some threat - but the Consult ignored it and crossed the continent themselves to finish off the last kingdoms of Men.
They knew the Heron Spear was still out there somewhere when Mog took the field.  Seswatha had already penetrated Golgotteroth (when Kiniuri still stood) to steal it - surely striking at the Consult and the unfinished No-god themselves would have been the better option then, if it were possible?

Ultimately its really just conflicting opinions though, I'm really hopeful we will get some better info on the Consult's motives and previous actions in TUC.

[Wilshire]

The fact that sorcery still works leads me to believe the world wasn't shut. Maybe it was partially cut off from Outside, but there had to still be some connection.

Could be that they expected Mog to shut the world, but when the schoolmen still assaulted them they realized they had more work to do.

[mrganondorf]

Yeah, but the fact of Mog's existence wasn't a permanent solution, was it.  "The souls that encounters him passes no further".

I think the fact that the war continued after Mog rose demonstrates that there was more work to be done, otherwise they could have just waited for humans to die out naturally.
Also, there is the issue of the Scylvendi, the fact that sorcery still worked whilst Mog was about and the delivery of the Celmoman prophecy even as Mog 'tasted' the fallen king's soul.

Sticking with the idea that Mog was an improvement on the 144k thing and that critical mass was about to be achieved at Mengedda. 

INTRIGUING!  Do you think that all those that died during the First Apocalypse were lost in some irrevocable way?  In other words, pre- and post-Mog, souls went straight to the Outside, but during the 11 years of Whirlwind, the souls departed from flesh met Mog and never traveled on?

This is even more important if those hints about reincarnation end up being true--the No-God removes souls from their loops, doing something terrible to the world.

[Monstar]

Yeah, but the fact of Mog's existence wasn't a permanent solution, was it.  "The souls that encounters him passes no further".

I think the fact that the war continued after Mog rose demonstrates that there was more work to be done, otherwise they could have just waited for humans to die out naturally.
Also, there is the issue of the Scylvendi, the fact that sorcery still worked whilst Mog was about and the delivery of the Celmoman prophecy even as Mog 'tasted' the fallen king's soul.

Sticking with the idea that Mog was an improvement on the 144k thing and that critical mass was about to be achieved at Mengedda. 

INTRIGUING!  Do you think that all those that died during the First Apocalypse were lost in some irrevocable way?  In other words, pre- and post-Mog, souls went straight to the Outside, but during the 11 years of Whirlwind, the souls departed from flesh met Mog and never traveled on?

This is even more important if those hints about reincarnation end up being true--the No-God removes souls from their loops, doing something terrible to the world.

With references to "Mog" and soul cycle its starting to sound a bit like final fantasy 9! 

[SilentRoamer]

As long as we never get a bad guy as stupid and weak looking as Kuja!

Wouldn't mind getting a few Mogs though! Moogles own.

[SilentRoamer]

Yeah, but the fact of Mog's existence wasn't a permanent solution, was it.  "The souls that encounters him passes no further".

I think the fact that the war continued after Mog rose demonstrates that there was more work to be done, otherwise they could have just waited for humans to die out naturally.
Also, there is the issue of the Scylvendi, the fact that sorcery still worked whilst Mog was about and the delivery of the Celmoman prophecy even as Mog 'tasted' the fallen king's soul.

Sticking with the idea that Mog was an improvement on the 144k thing and that critical mass was about to be achieved at Mengedda. 

INTRIGUING!  Do you think that all those that died during the First Apocalypse were lost in some irrevocable way?  In other words, pre- and post-Mog, souls went straight to the Outside, but during the 11 years of Whirlwind, the souls departed from flesh met Mog and never traveled on?

This is even more important if those hints about reincarnation end up being true--the No-God removes souls from their loops, doing something terrible to the world.

I think all souls that died during those 11 years were the No-Gods equivalent of Petrol! Gotta keep the No-God rolling!

[mrganondorf]

Souls=petrol, that's nice, fits perfectly with the name "angel of endless hunger."  Lol, seems like one way to stop a No-God is to create another soul eating device to starve the NG.  Could you stop 1 NG with a second?  This is going to be the Consults argument--that having the NG eat souls (thus sending them to nonexistence?) is more humane than allowing the gods to munch on them forever.

[Monstar]

As long as we never get a bad guy as stupid and weak looking as Kuja!

Wouldn't mind getting a few Mogs though! Moogles own.

Be hilarious if they ended up on the "bad" side.

There are some serious similarities between FF7's Genova and the No-God. I wouldn't be surprised if Baker was influenced by it. Actually I wonder if Kellhus might possibly be modified to possess some of the genetic make up of the No-God.

[Wilshire]

lol is Kellhus Sephiroth or Cloud? Leaning towards the villain in this setup.