What are you watching?

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« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2016, 03:11:52 pm »
I'm not contending alien life, space faring, sentient, or otherwise.

I'm saying the show is ridiculous and the conclusions they draw are hilarious. :)

It's actually pretty belittling of humans, to insinuate that they simply couldn't possibly have done things like building the pyramids or whatever.  As if being smart or clever is a modern invention.  I'd actually bet that people were actually smarter and more clever then, on average, than now.  Probably by a lot actually.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

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« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2016, 03:23:04 pm »
I'm not contending alien life, space faring, sentient, or otherwise.

I'm saying the show is ridiculous and the conclusions they draw are hilarious. :)

It's actually pretty belittling of humans, to insinuate that they simply couldn't possibly have done things like building the pyramids or whatever.  As if being smart or clever is a modern invention.  I'd actually bet that people were actually smarter and more clever then, on average, than now.  Probably by a lot actually.

Even more so, there is a racist underpinning (conscious or not) in white people asserting that non-white people could not have been responsible for building the pyramids etc.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2016, 03:27:47 pm »
Eh, I mean may be in the way some choose to present the idea, but on the face of it, the suggestion that something else other than homo sapien built said structure is not inherently racist.

Though, I can see how that suggestion might feel offensive - If I built my house and someone came along and said 'dude no way a human built that' I might be offended. Though that might just as easily be a compliment as well, taken as 'the work is so extraordinary that it is beyond my conception of feats possible by humans and therefore the maker is superior in all ways to all other humans".

Going down that line of reasoning, you could even take the statement as racist to white people, suggesting that the inferior light skin peoples are not only intellectually incapable of understanding how it could be done, but also in no way could accomplish the building.

Its easy to be offended by anything. Harder to understand the intent.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 03:33:32 pm by Wilshire »
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MSJ

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« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2016, 04:06:13 pm »
Ancient Aliens us a had a few new episodes with some really interesting stuff. Aliens are real fellows, believe the hype.
You're getting sucked into their delusions, man.

Lol. Nah. I just find it very interesting. But, there are quite a few "coincidences" that are hard for me to buy the scientific/scholarly interpretation. If for anything else, I love watching the show for things they show I would probably never have heard of. Like that bird they found in a tomb in Egypt that had an inscription next to it saying "I want to fly". The made an exact model of it enlarged and guess what? It flew. Do I think AA seeded the Earth? No. But, I think knowledge was shared on a much greater scale than the textbooks say. And, I have zero confidence on any timeline given on how civilization arose.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2016, 04:14:11 pm »
Its easy to be offended by anything. Harder to understand the intent.

That is the greatest statement of statements ever made. People rarely look at intent, just what is offensive to their own self's. I've found that the internet is the most offended space in the World. Its just so many different cultures interacting that someone is bound to be offended.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2016, 04:43:01 pm »
Well, I said belittling of humans in general, because that's more of what it really is, rather than racially motivated, I would imagine.  Not that a racial motive couldn't subconsciously be in play, but I would think that most of those crack-pots are as apt to claim Stonehenge was made by "aliens" as The Great Pyramid was.  I think the difference is actually that what was made in ancient (very ancient, i.e. pre-Greek) times by non-White cultures simply exceeds what even later cultures (White or otherwise) were able to do. 

In so, dismissing that so-called "primitive" (haha, very much a joke though, because as I said they were probably well smarter than us) could build such things, or plan such things without all the tools we need today to even match what they did could appear as racially charged, when I don't really think they are.  More of a bias to the idea that we are more "advanced" as human-kind now, so what came before must simply have been outright worse and demonstrably so.  The joke, so to speak, is on us though, thinking that somehow, ancient humans (regardless of race) were somehow less than us now.  In reality, the opposite is probably far more true.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

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« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2016, 05:20:13 pm »
Take Gobekli Tepe in Turkey into account. It throws all timelines of civilization out the window. If you don't know about it, Google it, totally amazing. Every year there is more and more evidence stacking up that keeps pushing the timeline of humans and civilization back further and further. I think it much more plausible that there was a civilization as great or greater than ours, call it Atlantis, call it whatever you want. But, it was destroyed by a meteor or super volcano or whatever. That's where my money would be. I just think it is very egotistical of us to say THIS is how it happened, based on very limited knowledge of our ancient past. So much knowledge has been lost to the sands of time and there is so much out there yet to be uncovered. Take ancient Egypt for example, they estimate that something like 90% of it is still out there covered up in the sand. They haven't even scratched the surface. The Great Pyramid of Giza, what was it even used for? And my favorite is that the Sphinx was once under water, at least partially. That would make it tens of thousands years older than what they say it is. There is just so much we don't know, and I for one, will always keep an open mind as to what might have came before us. AA theory is out there, sure. But, if you look at the evidence through a different lens, it opens up a world of possibilities.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2016, 05:41:16 pm »
I'd happily consider a lost precursor man-ish civilization that evolved and was destroyed. Our ability to date things properly on earth is a joke - based on loose concepts and big assumptions. Using light speed as a constant (outside of early pre-big bang planck time), is a good way to date the stars and such at least, so we know the universe is big and old. But once you zoom in to planetary level, not so much.

Interstellar space travel though... The timelines and energy requirements are so far outside of our realm of knowledge its hard to believe. Possible? Kind of. But, I'm prepared to accept "I told you so" after the fact ;) .
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 05:43:19 pm by Wilshire »
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« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2016, 06:07:57 pm »
I'd happily consider a lost precursor man-ish civilization that evolved and was destroyed. Our ability to date things properly on earth is a joke - based on loose concepts and big assumptions.
Interstellar space travel though... The timelines and energy requirements are so far outside of our realm of knowledge its hard to believe. Possible? Kind of. But, I'm prepared to accept "I told you so" after the fact ;) .

Indeed.  While we believe our methods to date things are accurate, the fact is, there is no way to know how accurate.  This is because there are we cannot recreate the exact circumstances to prove the method exactly.  So, while the seeming water erosion present on the Sphinx would seem to contradict the current dating of it's carving, the fact is, that sort of understanding of the exact weathering, that exact stone under those exact conditions, is completely unknown.

As for the Great Pyramid, the evidence that it was built as a tomb is pretty substantial, in my opinion.  Now, why Khufu would have thought that was needed is a whole different issue, but such seemingly unnecessary overdoing of such a thing is hardly unprecedented in human history.  Perhaps he was a "true-believer" or perhaps he wasn't, but just wanted to "be sure" to reach the afterlife.  Perhaps it was politically motivated, a way to demonstrate his power, something of a show of strength.  Consider even that it could simply have been a bad idea, an imperial whim, taken to it's most extreme.  I don't see any aspect of the Great Pyramid that speaks to anything that would seem out of the ordinary for any person, let alone an imperial ruler.

I think you are right on the civilization part though, because while we construct a narrative of the how's and why's and, of course, where's, but the idea that it could only have been there and then is flawed.  No doubt many people tried many things, many times, in many places and often it simply did not work out.  We simply have only found a few examples.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Hiro

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« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2016, 09:28:29 pm »
Its easy to be offended by anything. Harder to understand the intent.

That is the greatest statement of statements ever made. People rarely look at intent, just what is offensive to their own self's. I've found that the internet is the most offended space in the World. Its just so many different cultures interacting that someone is bound to be offended.

The question of intent was the whole point of my remark, as it was not about me being possibly offended. I did not make this up or read it somewhere on the internet. As Bakker points out, ignorance is blind. You need to take a closer look before you come up with ill-informed conclusions.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 09:30:16 pm by Hiro »
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MSJ

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« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2016, 11:13:32 pm »
Its easy to be offended by anything. Harder to understand the intent.

That is the greatest statement of statements ever made. People rarely look at intent, just what is offensive to their own self's. I've found that the internet is the most offended space in the World. Its just so many different cultures interacting that someone is bound to be offended.

The question of intent was the whole point of my remark, as it was not about me being possibly offended. I did not make this up or read it somewhere on the internet. As Bakker points out, ignorance is blind. You need to take a closer look before you come up with ill-informed conclusions.

I'm sorry if you thought my post was aimed at you, it was not. I just think Wilshire made a great observation. And, then said it's what I see on the internet all the time. People are quick to be offended, quick to make assumptions. Especially now with these elections, I see a lot of this on Facebook. And it's sad, seeing life long friends judging each other over which candidate they support. Then, the ensuing name-calling of racist, bigot and on and on. Even me writing this post is an example of the conclusion you drew upon my post. I've always found it very hard to convey what I'm feeling or thinking over text, or on these forums. Guess I am just ill-suited to the task. I do prefer face to face communication over text or even on the phone. As I feel a lot can be lost in translation when you don't see non-verbal cues.

Anyhow, back to Wilshire's statement, it's what I feel is truly wrong in this world. Everyone seems to want to be offended or feel wronged in some way. Just look at your Facebook and tell me If what you see is mostly negative or positive. I know what I see, negativity, an unwillingness to work through problems and create a better world. I see division everywhere anymore and it's sad, very sad.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Hiro

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« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2016, 11:08:01 am »
Its easy to be offended by anything. Harder to understand the intent.

That is the greatest statement of statements ever made. People rarely look at intent, just what is offensive to their own self's. I've found that the internet is the most offended space in the World. Its just so many different cultures interacting that someone is bound to be offended.

The question of intent was the whole point of my remark, as it was not about me being possibly offended. I did not make this up or read it somewhere on the internet. As Bakker points out, ignorance is blind. You need to take a closer look before you come up with ill-informed conclusions.

I'm sorry if you thought my post was aimed at you, it was not. I just think Wilshire made a great observation. And, then said it's what I see on the internet all the time. People are quick to be offended, quick to make assumptions. Especially now with these elections, I see a lot of this on Facebook. And it's sad, seeing life long friends judging each other over which candidate they support. Then, the ensuing name-calling of racist, bigot and on and on. Even me writing this post is an example of the conclusion you drew upon my post. I've always found it very hard to convey what I'm feeling or thinking over text, or on these forums. Guess I am just ill-suited to the task. I do prefer face to face communication over text or even on the phone. As I feel a lot can be lost in translation when you don't see non-verbal cues.

Anyhow, back to Wilshire's statement, it's what I feel is truly wrong in this world. Everyone seems to want to be offended or feel wronged in some way. Just look at your Facebook and tell me If what you see is mostly negative or positive. I know what I see, negativity, an unwillingness to work through problems and create a better world. I see division everywhere anymore and it's sad, very sad.

Look, I absolutely agree with you that real life, face to face communication is always preferable than communication via machines. And I agree that division is unfortunately indeed the tenor of the time.

Within the context of this thread, I thought that your comment was aimed at what I had written. Which was misconstrued, as I tried to point out later. And it seems like it still is. Referring to aliens as contributing to building the pyramids is in itself a loaded line of thought, whether one is aware of it or not. I assumed that on a Bakker forum people would be cognizant of the perennial problem of unseen biases, but, as stated, ignorance is blind. This was the sole point I was making. Apparently it was in need of more explanation, to clarify that I do not feel offended or that this was for me not about political correctness or anything.

So yes, real life trumps (...) online communication.

As for Wilshire's statement and your, ahem, rather high praise, I beg to differ. It's not a false statement, per se. However, I feel the need to push against it, as it is a statement that does not display a great deal of self-reflection. To me it reads as containing too much self-justification, if I push it to an extreme, it can seem to negate personal responsibility or agency. As if you're saying, "it's your problem that your are feeling offended."

Yes, the elections are a prime example of the bizarre behavior you describe. Granted, there is a lot of anger going around, and people withdraw behind their own walls and feel the need to defend at the slightest (perceived) intrusion.

Still, what I am trying to get at, what I am missing in the statement (and this could be just me), is a recognition/awareness of the other. A willingness to listen, to listen to points of view that do not agree with your own, a willingness to have a sincere conversation. To make an effort to explain your intent, if the other doesn't seem to understand yours. The first reaction is too often, (I'm exaggerating)  "...so stupid that you cannot understand my intent..." - a very human reaction -, instead of thinking, "hmmm, how can I better explain my intent."  Which I feel is required, and would help contribute people being able to work through their problems together.


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Alia

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« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2016, 06:40:13 pm »
We finally got our Netflix subscription and immediately started watching Stranger Things. I really loved it - the 1980s feel, the characters, the acting. And the whole small-town atmosphere and everyday life drama going on in the background to the supernatural. And they have really good cliffhangers at the end of each "Chapter". We watched four episodes in one sitting and the next Sunday we wanted to watch just one or two - and finished by watching all four that were left.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

Wilshire

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« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2016, 01:29:22 pm »
Stranger Things is amazing. My wife loves those sorts of coming of age stories, if you like Stranger Things, check out Super 8 (2011) - it has a similar setting and feel, though its a movie so it doesn't have quite the depth.

Started watching Westword, I feel like the show will be talking about consciousness, in a manner which TSAers will appreciate.
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Hiro

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« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2016, 02:12:49 pm »
Arrival was a pretty interesting film!
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