The Second Apocalypse

Miscellaneous Chatter => General Misc. => Topic started by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2015, 12:09:50 am

Title: Suggestion
Post by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2015, 12:09:50 am
Prompted by Madness feeling somewhat agreived by the 'nazi' mods at Westeros, I feel compelled to offer my opinion on the subject from the point of view of what goes on over here.

I believe moderation here is way too lax.  From well intentioned scattergun shitposting (sorry, mg, I am looking at you) to deliberately offensive troll accounts from Westeros, too many threads are reduced to levels of cringe that would repel any potential poster, common or casual.

The example that prompted me to post this is here. (http://"http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1495.15")
It is unbelievable to me that this PP character is allowed to post this shit unchallenged. 

The last post is flat out offensive and baiting, PP depends on the memetic situation established in the Westeros threads where the over-riding bigotry behind his reply is "countered" by the suggestion that it is ironic, which depends entirely on in-group support - that, of course, the poster has enough moral prestige to be above reproach.  But instead it just comes across as bigoted hate speech and should be dealt with.

Imagine a casual forum browser looking through this thread.  For many of them shit like this confirms the OP's accusations that TSA is violent pornography for emotionally stunted middle class white boys. 

tl/dr Mods here need to wield a bigger stick.  Too much shit is allowed to ride and make everyone here complicit and certainly damages perceptions of Bakker and his readers.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Madness on July 25, 2015, 12:51:13 am
Congratulations, you are a moderator.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2015, 01:24:32 am
Well, okay.  I don't really have the time for it (I deliberately try to limit the time I do spend online nowadays) but I will try to help out.

Perhaps further discussion on should be considered acceptable is warranted?  Don't know how much merit is in my opinion.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: The Great Scald on July 25, 2015, 06:21:06 pm
How many mods do we even have on Second Apocalypse?

I honestly don't think we need more than one or two, given the small size of this forum.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Wilshire on July 26, 2015, 03:15:34 pm
There are 4 mods, and yes, we barely need one. However, I agree with Madness. Put some action behind those words.

Second, the top 30 posters dont even make it to 75 posts. Sure PP can be irritating, but as you can see per the thread, his/her comment was ignored and it didnt turn into the shit show that you are afraid of. I'm not saying removing it was wrong, just that it didnt seem like a big deal. I think, though, that you are probably correct in this instance.

As for MG, hey buddy, at least he's around to keep the bored alive, which is more than can be said for almost anyone else. If it wasn't for him, there would be approximately 20 posts since last January. Heavy handed moderating on non-threatening posts is unacceptable, at least until there is enough traffic to even pretend like this forum isn't dead. As it is, having posts in the front page of every thread that have had no activity in months, or in some cases even years, is far more unattractive than a bit of fun.

Aside, thanks for stepping up Cüréthañ. You will find that it takes less time than you could possibly imagine to moderate a forum with less than a dozen actively posting members.

edit:
To further explain; I'm always fairly hesitant to remove posts of any kind as I feel like I'm too close. There isn't a large enough, or at least vocal enough, community here to create a feedback loop of any kind. I think "the mods" generally expect suspect posts to be reported, but this rarely happens, so then we're forced to assume that either nobody cares, or the at-large community finds it acceptable. This is admittedly not the most efficient way of moderating.

Another thing I'd like to note, is that I'm not convinced there are any potential-posteres, casual or otherwise. At least, in the several years this forum has existed in one form or another, I've not really seen any, and I find it hard to believe that more moderation would lead to more posting. However, I'd love to be wrong, so maybe you can help us out and find a better median between none and too much.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Francis Buck on July 26, 2015, 07:14:39 pm
There are 4 mods, and yes, we barely need one. However, I agree with Madness. Put some action behind those words.

Second, the top 30 posters dont even make it to 75 posts. Sure PP can be irritating, but as you can see per the thread, his/her comment was ignored and it didnt turn into the shit show that you are afraid of. I'm not saying removing it was wrong, just that it didnt seem like a big deal. I think, though, that you are probably correct in this instance.

As for MG, hey buddy, at least he's around to keep the bored alive, which is more than can be said for almost anyone else. If it wasn't for him, there would be approximately 20 posts since last January. Heavy handed moderating on non-threatening posts is unacceptable, at least until there is enough traffic to even pretend like this forum isn't dead. As it is, having posts in the front page of every thread that have had no activity in months, or in some cases even years, is far more unattractive than a bit of fun.

Aside, thanks for stepping up Cüréthañ. You will find that it takes less time than you could possibly imagine to moderate a forum with less than a dozen actively posting members.

edit:
To further explain; I'm always fairly hesitant to remove posts of any kind as I feel like I'm too close. There isn't a large enough, or at least vocal enough, community here to create a feedback loop of any kind. I think "the mods" generally expect suspect posts to be reported, but this rarely happens, so then we're forced to assume that either nobody cares, or the at-large community finds it acceptable. This is admittedly not the most efficient way of moderating.

Another thing I'd like to note, is that I'm not convinced there are any potential-posteres, casual or otherwise. At least, in the several years this forum has existed in one form or another, I've not really seen any, and I find it hard to believe that more moderation would lead to more posting. However, I'd love to be wrong, so maybe you can help us out and find a better median between none and too much.

I pretty much agree with everything Wilshire said here, and use it as the primary excuse for why I don't really do anything mod-related.

That being said when I saw the post Curethan removed I was totally fine with it (the removal, I mean). If the post itself isn't adding anything to the discussion whatsoever, other than perhaps offending/turning someone off in the future, I see no reason for it to exist.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: mrganondorf on July 26, 2015, 09:13:52 pm
From well intentioned scattergun shitposting (sorry, mg, I am looking at you)

:( i thought i had stopped!  i can adapt!  what should i do?!  did i have a post removed?  i am sorry that i haven't been posting more lately, the time seems to flow fast like the icky stuff that erupts from the bad guy that visits Esmi ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Wilshire on July 26, 2015, 09:37:56 pm
Nah you're good MG. Some people are just too serious methinks.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Cüréthañ on July 27, 2015, 08:07:19 am
No intent to offend MG, please accept my apology. I see you take a more measured approach nowadays and compliment you on that.

I was thinking about casual traffic and went looking for examples on each side of the spectrum of post types that might discourage member activity- obviously casting my mind back to when I was more active here - in an effort to think of things that could be discouraging.
Only raised it as an example of something I personally find distracting and would consider broaching via PM (were I a mod, which I wasn't when I made the post ;) ).

In the other case, I strongly feel that ignoring people like that in social circles is seen as tacit agreement in the eyes of observers. 

My opinion was offered mainly to get some feedback on what is more generally considered appropriate - I know that I am often somewhat out of step with social norms.

Btw Wilshire, clue me in on what criteria you use to approve/deny new members so I can help out there.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Garet Jax on July 27, 2015, 02:38:04 pm
I agree with both sides personally.

On the outside looking in, I think this issue has found the proper middle ground/resolution.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Wilshire on July 27, 2015, 03:20:40 pm
I agree with both sides personally.

On the outside looking in, I think this issue has found the proper middle ground/resolution.

Classic QT. Thanks ;).

In the other case, I strongly feel that ignoring people like that in social circles is seen as tacit agreement in the eyes of observers. 

You are probably most correct. Now that you say it I can see that perspective.

My opinion was offered mainly to get some feedback on what is more generally considered appropriate - I know that I am often somewhat out of step with social norms.

If everyone was so forthcoming with their opinion this place would be much louder. Any feedback is appreciated, otherwise its just Madness/FB/me taking potshots into the abyss and never getting anything in return to know if we hit the target or not.

Btw Wilshire, clue me in on what criteria you use to approve/deny new members so I can help out there.

Sending a PM
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: mrganondorf on July 27, 2015, 07:00:56 pm
No intent to offend MG, please accept my apology. I see you take a more measured approach nowadays and compliment you on that.

I was thinking about casual traffic and went looking for examples on each side of the spectrum of post types that might discourage member activity- obviously casting my mind back to when I was more active here - in an effort to think of things that could be discouraging.
Only raised it as an example of something I personally find distracting and would consider broaching via PM (were I a mod, which I wasn't when I made the post ;) ).

In the other case, I strongly feel that ignoring people like that in social circles is seen as tacit agreement in the eyes of observers. 

My opinion was offered mainly to get some feedback on what is more generally considered appropriate - I know that I am often somewhat out of step with social norms.

Btw Wilshire, clue me in on what criteria you use to approve/deny new members so I can help out there.

no more dick pics for me!  not even the nice ones where i'm wearing my sunday best and lounging outside a classy cafe with my pipe and fancy eye patch!
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: mrganondorf on July 29, 2015, 02:31:41 pm
i know i promised no more dick pics, but i couldn't resist one last naughty photo:
http://i.imgur.com/Le0nECZ.jpg
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Somnambulist on July 29, 2015, 04:53:29 pm
i know i promised no more dick pics, but i couldn't resist one last naughty photo:
http://i.imgur.com/Le0nECZ.jpg

That one's tricky...
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Wilshire on July 29, 2015, 05:07:55 pm
i know i promised no more dick pics, but i couldn't resist one last naughty photo:
http://i.imgur.com/Le0nECZ.jpg

That one's tricky...
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140906160440/villains/images/d/dc/NIXON'S_BACK.png
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Bolivar on July 29, 2015, 08:48:50 pm
On a separate note, what do you guys think about some remodeling? I know this sounds superficial but the generic forum visual template makes the place look more barren than I think it otherwise would. I definitely think this should be looked into when the unholiest draws near and more people are likely to find their way here.

Also, this hasn't been an issue lately, now that some more Westerosi made their way over, but I think it would be best to encourage posting new topics instead of reviving old threads on them. The zombie Three Seas threads might have the effect of inhibiting more active posting, at least it did for me. Most forums have rules about necro-ing old threads, since someone's less inclined to post a new topic and get a discussion flowing when there's already years and dozens of pages of discussion to read through. This is likely also superficial but I just think it's more inviting when there's lots of shorter, newer threads that you can read quickly and kindle an organic discussion in. This is something that will take care of us the more we post new topics so I'll try to do my part in that.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Wilshire on July 30, 2015, 02:42:12 am
Both questions have been brought up in the past.

As for the first, we're open to suggestions. If you or anyone else can find and/or make a template from SMF (http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/) that is satisfactory, let us know. I've looked through them an nothing really jumped out, and Ive no talent for creating. Just no white/light text on a black/dark background - Madness can't handle that. Otherwise, suggest away.

As for new threads, you may be right. We have set a soft limit at 15 pages of comments, but it may be that locking older topics might encourage new posts... However I would guess that those that want to post have and/or do, and forcing people to make new topics isn't likely to encourage more posting, but thats just one man's opinion. If we get some real user input/participation, change is always possible.

We even have a whole board for these kinds of things, as well as a stickied thread called Suggestion Box (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=36.0) ;).
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Bolivar on July 30, 2015, 05:09:25 pm
Thanks, I'll look into SMF templates, also agree that white on black terrible.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: mrganondorf on July 30, 2015, 06:34:08 pm
i know i promised no more dick pics, but i couldn't resist one last naughty photo:
http://i.imgur.com/Le0nECZ.jpg

That one's tricky...
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140906160440/villains/images/d/dc/NIXON'S_BACK.png

lol Somnabulist, Wilshire!

Nixon's part in this Futurama episode is one of my all time favorite bits of the show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Morning_Fun_Pit
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Francis Buck on August 07, 2015, 11:54:32 pm
Nixon's part in this Futurama episode is one of my all time favorite bits of the show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Morning_Fun_Pit

Oh man, I totally forgot about the headless body of Spiro Agnew. I think it's time for a rewatch.