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Messages - Ishammael

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The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Who attacked the Scarlet Spires and why?
« on: December 31, 2013, 07:17:27 pm »
One of my issues with the theory that the Cish are really the ones behind the attack is the whole "stepping out of a portal" thing.  Are there any other examples of the Cish (or any others for that matter) stepping out of portals, or teleporting, besides this?  Kell obviously notwithstanding.  I was under the impression that he was the first to be able to do anything like this, and it is accmplished in a different way.
If the Cish had this ability, then wouldn't they have used it in the Holy War?  It can't be the case that only a select few had the power to do this, because I can't believe they would sacrifice the only ones capable of creating these portals on a suicide mission.

I don't know who else it could have been... other than maybe some other entity from the Outside?  I don't recall what the description of the Ciphrang's arrival into the world is like, but maybe it is something along those lines?  Is it possible there was an inner struggle within the Scarlet Spires and some rival Daimos weilding faction is involved?  It is certainly a stretch... but I just can't accept the Cish argument here.  Kell's assumptions seem to be based on so little factual evidence and do not seem to coincide with what I can recall of how the Cish work.

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Side Effects of Eating Sranc
« on: December 11, 2013, 05:54:02 pm »

Really liking this line of thought, Curethan. Especially because I think it fits into the idea of qirri (and chanv) being the result or sorcerous ashes, rather than anything special to the Nonmen. Perhaps, when a sorceror is "Choraed", it's his physical body that's incinerated, while the salt is the residue of his soul. Burning a Nonman (and, presumably a human), yields the same thing -- the body is gone, but the ashes that remain are infused with the soul residue.

The ability to grasp the onta is genetic afterall.

So, Chanv is the result of "Choared" corpses and Qirri the result of burned ashes? 

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General Earwa / Re: Who (or what) created Eärwa?
« on: December 11, 2013, 05:14:49 pm »
Madness, any chance you can move my comment to the original thread?  I don't know if dragharrow has seen this and I selfishly want to hear his thoughts...

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General Earwa / Re: Who (or what) created Eärwa?
« on: December 10, 2013, 01:04:34 pm »
I stand entirely convinced by this argument.

So, essentially is seems like you are saying that the No-God is a sacrifice.  His torment of all-knowing, or all-self knowing, is what allows the people of Earwa to avoid the Damnation imparted upon them by the Hundred.

Does the No-God know this? If so, would that mean that he accepts the need for his existence and therefore becomes what some would argue to be the very epitome of "Good"?  If he he knows this but doesn't accept it, would he have said "Thank you" after being "killed" by the Heron Spear?  I don't think he truely understands or believes this, otherwise his questions wouldn't be asked.

So what would drive the need for death and war associated with the No-God's arrival, other than the hypothetical misunderstanding of the people of Earwa?  In other words, why wouldn't the Consult be able to create the No-God quietly in their basement after commiting the required torture, sacrifice, etc, and then hang out and party while the rest of Earwa is unaware of the existence?  I assume that the answer to this would be that the No-God's arrival would inevitably be tied to the inability for new children to be born, or other similar terrible consequences.  If that is the case, then I think we would need to explore why those consequences exist.  For example, if children are no longer born due to the presence of the No-God, does that mean the children are illusions of the Hundred or of their parents, which eventually grow into their own individual Truths capable of extending their Truth unto others?

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: What is the No God?
« on: December 09, 2013, 06:08:18 pm »
Has anyone read the Ender's Game books by Orson Scott Card?  At the end of the series Card delves into something similar.  My memory is fuzzy around the details, but basically they travel to an Outside and through the help of a super computer (over simplification, but you get the point) they are able to create new people, things, complex biological structures, etc.
It seems like that would play in well with the idea of the No-God's will creating his own version of Earwa, superimposed over the existing one. 
Maybe someone with a more coherent thought process than mine can expand, or agree... or probably shoot it down.

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Interlude: Ishual
« on: December 06, 2013, 05:51:18 pm »
Just to reinforce the "Exemplary" portion..
In a past life, I was a claims adjuster for a large insurance company.  I handled a lot of product related claims.  As part of our investigation, we would obtain an "exemplar" to test on and see what happens.  For example, if a washing machine caught fire to a house, we would get a stock issue washing machine of the same type to test and try to replicate the conditions and events that triggered the loss.
I hadn't thought of it in this context until reading these recent posts, but this seems to be what the intent would be here.
Consider the dead horse beaten...

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General Earwa / Re: Chorae
« on: December 02, 2013, 06:02:43 pm »
To drive into further needless questions...

If you cut the arm off a person with the Mark, and then hit it with a chorae... will the arm salt?  Will you see the Mark on the arm after it is cut off? 

What about the hair of a Marked man?  After he gets a haircut, will it have the Mark and/or be saltable?

I honestly doubt that these sorts of questions have any relevancy in the story and I don't think that Bakker has probably pondered the nuance... but still fun to question!

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General Earwa / Re: Kellhus' Limits
« on: November 15, 2013, 06:13:05 pm »
Quote
"So the Cishaurim assassinated the Grandmaster of the Scarlet Spires, prompting a war that will find its conclusion this very day..."
Just then, Kellhus inadvertently kicked something lying upon the graven floor.  Something hollow and fibrous.  A skull?"

I wondered about this passage for a long time.  It seemed strange to add that Kel accidentally kicked something in the dark while speaking to Moe, right at that moment.  He could have kicked something in the dark at any time.  Why then?  Was this a literary red flag, like he took a misstep in his assumptions?  I don't know, but it still nags me.

So this is my first time trying to include quotes from other posts.  Hopefully I didn't butcher it.
So, this is what I was talking abuot in my ealier post up-thread.
I don't think we have actual evidence, other than this exchange, that proves the Cish were actually behind the assassination.
I think that Kell was wrong, and that the Consult were behind it.  The Consult knew their spies were being captured, assumed the Cish were behind it, and then framed them via the assasination.
For all we know, there are other surviving relics of the Aporos that may work similar to the "Gateway Cubes" from Wheel of Time, which a Skin-Spy smuggeled in and was able to trigger.  Yes, there should have been a Mark or some other evidence, but we don't really know how the Aporos works, and for all we know some other unknown sorcery was used.
Tangent - any thoughts on the possibility of the Consult tapping the Water in some "non-holy" way, and using THAT for the assassination?

Anyway, I don't think it is ever confirmed in the text without a doubt that the Cish were behind the killing.  The Consult would be the obvious alternative.  In hindsight, that means it wasn't The Consult...  maybe it was Moe?

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General Earwa / Re: Kellhus' Limits
« on: November 13, 2013, 06:35:06 pm »
I don't have the books in front of me, but I was always under the assumption that the Consult were behind the assassination, as part of their desire to eliminate the Cish (IIRC, they were concerned about their inability to place skin-spies in Shimeh which they incorrectly was related to the power of the Cish).
I havent read the first trilogy in a few years, so forgive me if I am forgetting something obvious to disprove my assumption here. 

As another option: We know at least one skin spy had a soul and was able to use sorcery... maybe there was another that was disguised as a Scarlet Spires and aided in the assassination somehow?  Major stretch, I know, but maybe it leads someone with a better mind at crackpot theories down a better path...

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General Earwa / Re: Dûnyain society
« on: November 01, 2013, 05:38:50 pm »
hi all.  long time stalker, first time poster.
On lunch break at work... so need to make it quick.
Earlier in this thread, there were a few comments on how the stars circle the world.  At face value, it seems like a silly notion, and the thought follows that there obviously must be plenty of other things they don't know or understand due to their isolation.

BUT

Don't we know there is something different about this planet?  Isn't that why the Inchies are here?
Is it possible this is an early seed planted to indicate the significance of this "crash-landing" spot for the Inchies?
Maybe the stars really DO circle around the world.  Maybe this is how the Inchies knew it was special, unique, or whatever they used to describe the significance of it.
What does that mean to story?  No clue. 
I'm sure someone can turn it into a rectal reference though, with very little effort...

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