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Messages - ThoughtsOfThelli

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16
Very interesting find, and yet extremely creepy given the TSA similarities... :o

I think I'm with BFK here, signing up for an Ordeal ends up in salt and butchery 99.99% of the time. No, thanks. ;) I'll just stay here where the storks are and hope for the best. (It did work for the Sakarpi once...)

17
I found Iyokus not appearing on-screen whatsoever to be very, very strange, to the extent that it doesn't really make sense to me. Why would he not have been more involved, for example, in the scenes with members of the Great Ordeal making tactical/strategic decisions? We see the other leading sorcerors involved there (hell, an entire subplot is devoted to Saccarrees and Carindusu). I'd figured by the time TGO came out Iyokus still hadn't popped up  that RSB was just saving himfor TUC - and in a sense he was, what with the super daimos Ciphrang attack -- but it still felt strange that we gradually got to catch up on characters like Proyas and later Saubon as TAE progressed, but never got anything from the dude who is in large part responsible for some of the more important things in the quadrilogy, including Kellhus's learning of the Daimos (the relevance of which can't really be overstated, given the ending of TUC).

It feels like something where there may have been plans to have him show up, but they either got dropped in editing or RSB just felt like it wasn't plot relevant by the time we got TUC, and that the glimpse we got via Kakaliol was enough.

I agree. I seem to remember a scene where Iyokus expressed his opinion during a meeting or something, but that was about it. For three books, he was almost entirely in the background. Which is indeed strange, considering this is a secondary character that had an important role in the last series and (which is maybe more relevant for TAE) that was Kellhus' tutor in the Daimos in between series.
It's possible that Bakker felt that he just didn't have the time to include anything with Iyokus along with all the other ongoing plotlines, but it's still disappointing. We just get a short scene with him (and he wasn't even referred to by name, which resulted in some people not even noticing that he died...) and then he dies. I haven't heard of any deleted scene involving him, though, so maybe dropping a possible Iyokus subplot (if it did happen) was an early decision?
Like you said, we had those scenes with Saccarees and Carindûsû. Iyokus' role in TAE is even smaller than that of Obwë Gûswuran (Mysunsai Grandmaster) and Temus Enhorû (Imperial Saik Grandmaster), who aren't that important as characters, but are at least mentioned frequently. It's almost a glaring absence, every single Grandmaster of a School in the Ordeal except for Iyokus (until his only and last scene) has a minor role.

18
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« on: August 02, 2018, 10:06:23 pm »
Quote from:  ThoughtsofThelli
I have read The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August and would recommend it. I really enjoyed the exploration of how people who could remember their past lives (well, the same life over and over, but you get what I mean) would try to change the world/society (or choose not to do it), and how it affected their mental well-being, personality, etc

Yea, I'm starting it tonight, just can't stop the itch I have to read this book. Once I've read it, I'll start a spoiler thread so we can discuss. :)

Sounds like a good plan, MSJ. It has been a while since I read it (a year or so?) but I do have some ideas I'd like to discuss. :)

19
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« on: August 02, 2018, 04:37:59 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Hobb is on my list ... can you let me know if you finish? I started it once, briefly, but only got a handful of pages. Does it have much magic, or not so much, and if its worth reading. These are things I need MSJ to tell me :).

I am only on chapter 2, so there hasn't been any type of action so far. Only the background on Fitz (main character), and a little world building. I will keep you informed as your questions are answered.

Only thing is...i might put it down in favor of another book. Came across a thread about The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August, by Claire North (which is a ghostname(?) for Charlotte Webb). This has really grabbed my attention, the whole premise is that Harry is a a man that lives the same life over and over. He can remember his previous lives, and meets others just like him. It has gotten a lot of rave reviews on it, and everything I read up on, says it's an excellent book. Also, it's only $2.99 on kindle, couldn't pass that up. I might put off AA for a minute, and gobble this one up first. We'll see.

I have read The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August and would recommend it. I really enjoyed the exploration of how people who could remember their past lives (well, the same life over and over, but you get what I mean) would try to change the world/society (or choose not to do it), and how it affected their mental well-being, personality, etc.

20
Its sad Iyokus never really came back. Maybe some soul wrenching suffering in the Outside.

Probably the only way we'd see him again, yes (maybe barring flashbacks?), as it doesn't seem like he'd be anywhere near "Ciphrang-level" of damnation. And I agree with you, Iyokus was severely underused during TAE - I know he was more important in PON, but still, we could have had at least one or two scenes with him during the Ordeal chapters. He was only mentioned a couple of times during TJE, TWLW and TGO and then came back to be killed by a Ciphrang. Sad.

21
I would love to have an unique point of view in writing style. Something weird like the No-God (p-zombie) or Ajokli (timeless) POV.
Also I want Malowebi and Kellhus POV (whatever they have become) !

I agree there needs to be more non-human/Dunyain POVs, seems like a wasted oppurtunity not to have interesting POVs of other races like dragons and maybe semi-sane Nonman, perhaps even some Ursranc.

Dragons seem like a no-brainer though. For example they seem to all refer to themselves as "we" (excluding Wutteat). Would be cool to see why that is from a first hand perspective.

Oh damn! I would love to have a scranc POV!
Something very instinctivly driven, and struggling with the NG orders (whatever Bakker feel that could be, I'm good with it: worship or submission or mind control, whatever).
The story of a Sranc for the entire book and in the end... killed by a nobody in a massive battle! Haha!

The possibility of a Sranc POV (well, I think we already got one or two during the series. but those were very brief) becomes even more interesting taking this passage into account:
Quote from: TUC Glossary, "Aghurzoi"
Damial'isharin--a Siölan Ishroi who found himself trapped for five days (hidden in a dead fall) in the heart of an itinerant clan camp--famously claimed the Sranc possessed social customs and regimes very nearly as complicated as their own.
I can't be the only one who's curious about these complex Sranc social customs...

22
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TDTCB, Chapter 8
« on: August 02, 2018, 03:57:19 pm »
Quote
For an instant, Conphas felt like a thief, the hidden author of a great loss. And the exhilaration he felt almost possessed a sexual intensity. He saw clearly now why he so loved this species of war. On the field of battle, his every act was open to the scrutiny of others. Here, however, he stood outside scrutiny, enacted destiny from a place that transcended judgment or recrimination. He lay hidden in the womb of events.

Like a God.
The more I re-read these Conphas chapters, the more I feel he's Ciphrang material.

It's possible, I wouldn't put him as high in the "Ciphrang potential scale" as Cnaiür but I wouldn't rule the possibility out either. I know it's unlikely to happen, but I would still like to see some of the dead characters as Ciphrang in TNG...

23
Update as of July 30, 2018:
-Created the "Risaphial", "Mimotil" and "Cu'cûlol" pages (getting back to wiki-ing with baby steps...).



Update as of August 02, 2018:
-Created the "Yi'yariccas", "Damial'isharin" and "Tsinirû" pages (keeping with the "minor Nonman characters" trend).



Update as of August 03, 2018:
-Created the "Avalunsil", "Wulta-Ongorean", "Symaul", "Lurijara", "Suberd" and "Aelswë" pages.
-Edited the "Ûmeri Empire" page to add a "Known Rulers" section, including a few notes (trying to make sense of the Ûmeri rulers and the order they ruled in is a bit confusing; might need further editing).



Update as of August 04, 2018:
-Created the "Aisarinqu", "Aisralu", "Enpiralas", "Pil'kmiras", "Par'sigiccas", "Tinnirin", "Rama", "Cet'moyol", "Linqirû" and "Cu'huriol" pages (still carrying on with the "minor Nonman characters" trend).

24
General Earwa / Re: (srancpost) opinions on racism
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:31:56 pm »
The matter of racism and xenophobia in the series is definitely interesting worldbuilding from Bakker's part. I do agree that it seems that most Norsirai cultures (at least in the "modern era" of TSA) tend to be seen as the "uncivilized" ones. Having only read the series properly once, it's becoming much more noticeable in the (forum) reread. Conphas' comments in chapter 8 of TDTCB about the Tydonni and Thunyeri that had recently arrived at Momemn come to mind, with him thinking that at least the Ainoni, being fellow Ketyai, were civilized.
Then you have Zeüm, an apparently very advanced society that looks down on absolutely everyone in the Three Seas as "barbarians". While our opinion on Zeüm might be a bit biased by the fact that most characters we meet in the story were part of the Satakhan's court, and we have no idea how the average Zeümi citizen lives, it's definitely a welcome change to the usual fantasy standards (and hopefully we'll see much more of Zeüm in the near future). Zsoronga and Sorweel's friendship, I think, exemplifies the point you're making quite well - in another series, you might expect the white teenager to be the more sophisticated and knowledgeable one, and here you have Sorweel completely out of his depth compared to Zsoronga (well, both of them are actually out of their depth due to the whole situation they're in, but again, I think you get what I mean).
The only exception here is probably the case of the Dûnyain (who look Norsirai, but honestly should be considered as a separate ethnic group altogether), but they are just above everything and everyone in so many levels, it's like they don't even "count" as part of humanity anymore in some aspects...
After TUC, we're actually left with the majority of the main cast as people of colour. You have Achamian, Esmenet and Mimara as the main characters that are still alive. Kayûtas and Serwa (not actually confirmed as having survived) do look Norsirai, but I think technically they'd still count, as their mother is Ketyai? (though the ridiculously dominant Dûnyain genetics don't help much here) Not to mention that the main antagonists are now four Dûnyain/Norsirai.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get to here - I definitely agree with you on the points you've made. It didn't come across as racist, mean or anything of the sort, don't worry. ;) As a white person, it might not really be my place to address some of these issues in more detail (one is always wary of that), but I really appreciate what Bakker has done in the series so far, and hopefully this trend will carry on to the next series.

25
General Earwa / Re: Mimara's abilities and status as a prophet
« on: June 10, 2018, 06:12:08 pm »
It's not that I consider it a coincidence, it seems more like an overinterpretation. Small mundane or technical details being assigned much greater significance than they really possess.

It's possible. With the small amount of information we're given on this particular subject, overinterpretation will crop up...


It would be great!

I think I'll only add the quotes to this post when I've gathered enough of them...wall of text incoming. Still, no matter how long it gets, it could be helpful to get all the information on the JE and Mimara's abilities in one place. It will be easier to dissect it that way.


Absolutely. But I would never be mean to a person in my posts, being mean just isn't worth writing for. Even if I strongly disagree, I would only bring counter arguments, never an ad hominem attack. Especially I would never be mean to you or H, because time and time again you both demonstrate just how polite and respectful you are!

It's just sometimes I skip over considerate phrasing for the sake of being brief.

Ah, it still happens sometimes. You have never been anything other than polite in your comments before either, but my tired brain just went and twisted up that part of your comment, I guess (I still have no idea that my subconscious thought process was there). It's all been cleared up now, it's fine. :)
For the record, I would never do that either, I think we can all have a polite discussion here even if we strongly disagree with each other's points. My experience on this forum so far has been overwhelmingly positive, and it will hopefully remain that way.


This, and also the fact that she knew about Koringhus's one hundred stones without having any way of knowing about them.

That's right, I had forgotten about that part with Koringhus. (I really need to reread TGO.) I think that there were other moments where Mimara had knowledge about past events that she could not have possibly known otherwise (Galian having raped and murdered a child, etc.). If I remember correctly, those were all linked to the JE, but then again, so was the Wight-in-the-Mountain scene. Was the hundred stones detail something she also learned of via the JE?


I separate her very real supernatural powers revolving around the Judging Eye and her alleged prophetic status. Prophets are a mystery, while supernatural abilities are existing, shown, and sometimes explained in the series. We have many branches of sorcery, the divine (what the Gods do, in the narrative represented mostly by Ajokli and Yatwer), and the Judging Eye. Those forces are as objectively real in the setting as a fictional supernatural element can be.

Now, does the Judging Eye pertains to or, better yet, answers the question of prophets? This, unlike the shown properties of the Eye, remains unknown.

So when we're talking the Wight incident, I see what Mimara did as an objectively real supernatural power being used in a novel way. Just like Kellhus's first use of the Metagnostic Cant of Translocation in TTT. Even if the mechanics of it aren't explained, it doesn't mean they aren't there. It's not necessarily a miracle.

And I agree, it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief. At least not mine.

I see, it makes sense.
What makes a true prophet is a potential separate topic of discussion by itself. We have some of the prophets acknowledged as such in-universe being dismissed by those of different religions (the Fanim with Inri Sejenus, Psatma Nannaferi's comments about Fane, etc.), for instance (something that is, of course, to be expected). Even the idea that a true prophet has healing powers (that is usually thrown around in discussions about Kellhus and/or Mimara) only comes from Inri Sejenus' particular case, right?
As for the link between the JE and prophets - well, like you said, we don't know enough to reach a conclusion here.
This whole discussion makes me recall a Quorum conversation where it was said that Ajencis seemed to be suspiciously well-informed about how the Outside worked. I speculated that maybe he knew a woman with the JE, and that influenced his ideas. Of course, there is no evidence for this in the text given the lack of information about the JE, but it does make me wonder. The JE has been a known phenomenon for centuries, and probably millennia, that much we know. During my quote-hunting, I reread the scene where Achamian first realizes Mimara has the JE, and he refers to it as "what antique Mandate scholars called the Judging Eye". It could be possible that women with the JE have been sharing their visions with others for thousands of years, and thus contributing to the general perception of the Outside, damnation and so on. (To be clear, I'm not claiming this is actually the case, it's just a theory.) So a relationship, even if tangential, to at least one of the prophets that are know as such in-universe could be at least a possibility?
The tricky thing about prophets is that we just don't know if their miracles were truly such... We can't discount the possibility that (at least) some of them also had supernatural powers of their own which they used in an unprecedented way. I might be going against what I did before and doubting too much now, but your post did make me think of that. Fane, for instance, "was granted miraculous powers" after going blind in the Carathay Desert. The loss of his sight and the life-or-death situation could have lead to him tapping into potential abilities, which eventually became a new branch of sorcery. (The Titirga comparison comes to mind here as well.)


P.S. If you're interested, I also outlined my lines of thought on metaphysics of the series here:
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2267.msg35628#msg35628
Some of it may be outdated by now, but it still shows where I come from.

Thanks, I'll go ahead and read your analysis. :) I vaguely remember reading this when you first posted it, but it has been quite a while, so revisiting the thread would be a good idea.

26
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TDTCB, Chapter 9
« on: June 09, 2018, 08:21:20 pm »
I wasn't criticizing. ;)

I know that, but I wanted to say something about it anyway. :)

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The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TDTCB, Chapter 9
« on: June 09, 2018, 07:01:15 pm »
More than anybody else though ;D

I know, I know, I'm pretty late with my comment, but I'll get to it when I can (and reply to yours right after I add mine). ;) But I definitely have things to say about this chapter.

28
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Esmenet and the JE
« on: June 09, 2018, 06:15:23 pm »
This thread really made me wonder if being taken in by one of the Gods after death qualifies as "saved" for the Judging Eye.
Saved, no doubt. It's a human subroutine, recall. You'll spend eternity in your Mother's warm arms etc.
That clashes with the fact that some people in the Ordeal are saved by the Gods while Mimara sees them all as damned. Now, she might not have seen those saved, since she has just one pair of eyes, but the workings of damnation and salvation are still very unclear.

Also, this is in part where my doubt comes from. The Gods are connected to humanity. What about the God, who allegedly is behind the Judging Eye?

If I remember correctly, Mimara never looked at any of the 2 people we know for sure were saved by particular Gods (Sorweel and Sosering Rauchurl, saved by Yatwer and Gilgaöl respectively) with the JE. I might be wrong, though? I don't think anyone else was specified as being saved by X God, they were just damned.

I don't think people saved by one of the Hundred would really count as "saved" either, that's why I think there might be a separate category altogether (or they're just a subset of damnation).

We shouldn't assume that Yatwer's corner of the Outside, for instance, is a pleasant heaven-like place, either. Yatwer, as the Mother of Birth, could embody the warm and loving aspect of a mother goddess but also the cruel, vengeful one (something directly addressed by Psatma Nannaferi in the books).

29
Let's address the tapestry first and foremost. Here is its description:
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult", Chapter 11, "The Occlusion"
A dank socket between trees. A rare shaft of moonlight. Her own reflection across a black pool ... only transformed by the Eye into the very image she now holds in her hands ...
A pregnant woman, her cropped hair all the more black for the plate of brilliant silver about her head.
Blessed.
The way I see it, "the plate of brilliant silver about her head" indicates that the woman is blessed, which is an antonym of "damned". It doesn't specify any kind of enlightened state (even from Mimara's point of view), it speaks of judgement. This judgement needs to be stylized somehow in the image, since not everyone sees with the Judging Eye.

Alright, I did admit that the tapestry could be seem as flimsy evidence. The similarities do give me some pause - as this story takes place in a meaningful world, I find it harder to write off certain things as just coincidences. I could still be completely wrong, this could be just a tapestry depicting some historical or mythical holy figure (or even no one in particular) with some similarities to a previous vision of Mimara's (and there could be a subconscious association of ideas from Mimara, even if she didn't remember the tapestry that well, as I said in my previous post).


As far as I remember, he thinks of the abilities bestowed upon her by the Eye as prophetic and something more than human, it's not so much about Mimara herself.

Fair enough. I think I'll still go and hunt down quotes (including those from Akka's POV) that refer to Mimara as a prophet, maybe there are some other details there we're not remembering at the moment.


And here we have a problem. The Eye is known, yet the prophets we're aware of are all men. Now, it's not in itself an indication of anything, it's just something I consider extremely important. To the point of not being sold on Mimara's prophet status.

Even taking into account that I'm very aware that Earwan society is extremely discriminating toward women.

Yes, you're right on this account. This whole situation is not helped by the fact that there isn't a large sample size to begin with, and most prophets we're aware of lived thousands of years before the current series. So, we'd have: Angeshraël and the other Prophets of the Tusk, Inri Sejenus, Fane and Kellhus as the prophets that are considered as such in-universe (I think I'm not forgetting anyone there?). We, of course, know that Kellhus was a false prophet despite being widely accepted as the real thing. About the others, we just don't have enough information to go on, much like in the case of the JE. There's that comment Bakker made about Fanimry being very far off from the actual truth, but I don't think this can be used to fully disprove Fane's status as a prophet.
The fact that women appear to be inherently more damned than men in Eärwa (I'm not going on Mimara's JE-based opinions here only, there are several other characters that seem to fully accept this as a fact), alongside the misogyny present in most (all?) societies we know of, is kind of a confounding factor here as well, true. It does seem much more likely that any known prophets would be men due to these reasons alone. A potential female prophet would have a much harder time establishing herself as such and managing to not be dismissed as, say, a delusional, mentally unstable woman. I agree with you that in-universe, it seems much more likely for any prophet to be male, but again, we can't fully discount the possibility of the emergence of a female prophet (this being Mimara or someone else) either.


No, no, no, I wasn't at all bashing you! I specifically used an outrageous example to make my point clear, it wasn't about what you or H said. The claim that Mimara is special in-universe is much more plausible than my example, but it has the same innate problem, the lack of evidence in support of it. My point is, not everything that could happen (however plausible) should be considered with the same care. Some things (again, however plausible) just don't have the same amount of corroboration as others.

Glad to hear that. :) You know, tone in the Internet can be misinterpreted sometimes. The fact that I was a bit tired when reading your post and then replying to it didn't help much either.
I admit that you do have good points on there not being a substantial amount of evidence for Mimara being a true prophet, maybe I (and everyone else who thinks the same) should be more careful when taking this into consideration in the future. Anyway, this makes for a much more interesting discussion, it just wouldn't be the same if all of us were in agreement about Mimara's status. ;)


For example, the way that Mimara thinks herself a prophet for a huge amount of chapters has, from the structural (and thus out-of-universe) point of view, clear signs of misdirection. She repeats that she's a prophet so many times that we, the readers, are starting to take it for granted, forgetting that it's only her opinion. Later, it even stops being an opinion, she is completely convinced, and again, it wears on the readers, diluting our critical thinking.

I think I'm starting to realize that (part of) the reason I actually believe Mimara's own claims (and Achamian's to a lesser extent) could be good old wishful thinking. It's not implausible that Mimara is deluding herself, but I still want to believe that there could be truth to this, that she will have a role to play and that we'll get to see an actual true prophet in the series (as opposed to just Kellhus). I'll try to be a bit more critical from now on, but we can all be a bit biased when it comes to certain characters/subjects/etc., it's just the way it is.


And then all of it is complicated by the fact that she, in fact, has supernatural abilities, ones attributed to the God, no less. She can do more than a human, more than a sorcerer, more than anyone encountered, actually. But is it proof of her prophetic status? Or is it the same trap Kellhus fell into in TTT? He believed himself divine, at least for a time, and he also possessed outstanding abilities, even rarer than Mimara's. Unlike the Judging Eye, which was encountered more than once in history, Metagnosis was used by just one Nonman (Su'juroit) before Kellhus.

We know how well it worked out for Kellhus. But he, in the end, stopped trusting his visions. Mimara, on the other hand, has been shown to utterly lose her critical thinking on the matter.

Thinking about this for a bit, yes, I do see why we, the readers, could be in danger of being taken in and having another "Kellhus moment" take place in TNG.
When you're talking about Mimara's abilities, you're talking about how she used the Chorae to banish the Wight-in-the-Mountain, right? Because I don't recall her doing anything else that could be seen as extraordinary (only seeing certain people with the JE, and that was something that every other woman with it did as well). To this day, that incident has not been adequately explained in-universe (and probably never will), and both Achamian and Mimara herself have no idea of what actually happened there. Even out-of-universe, there have been differing theories on how Mimara was able to do this.
Out of curiosity, let's say your interpretation of "Mimara is deluded and no true prophet" is true. How do you explain this from that point of view? Were there outside circumstances/forces that no one was aware of in-universe that happened to make it work? Were Achamian and the Skin Eaters themselves imagining things to due their general psychological condition at the time?


You have nothing to apologize for! If anything, I should apologize for coming of as harsh because I often prefer brevity to clarity. I most certainly do not want other people to stop participating in the discussions I take part in.

Like I said above, I just misinterpreted your tone in the previous post, it was a honest mistake, it's fine. :) I think this discussion definitely has potential and we should continue exploring the topic.


So far, Mimara's special status stands entirely undisputed, but I have serious doubts about her. I voice them as an attempt to dig out the truth of the matter. I will freely admit that I'm interested in what is much more than in what could be. Speaking from my writing experience, there are many points when a narrative can go any way, and it wouldn't even have that much bearing on the story. It might not be relevant that characters are traveling south, for example. They might as well travel north, because it is their journey that's important, not its (physical) direction, which is quite possibly only referenced for the sake of wording a specific paragraph better. Then there are other situations, where, while many possibilities are present, the narrative is limited by the main idea of the work, or at least its plot. This is where Deus Ex Machina often rears its head, or where writers start adding new and previously non-existent elements to their worlds for the sake of moving the plot forward or, even worse, solving it. Now, when the work becomes completely arbitrary in those situations, it's a sigh of bad writing.

As I said above, despite having a very different opinion, I can see why you'd doubt the interpretation of Mimara's character/thoughts/actions/etc. So far, I think that there hasn't been any danger of a deus ex machina situation being set up regarding her abilities (we'll just have to wait and see what happens next). The situation with the Tear of God and the Wight-in-the-Mountain was unexpected and unexplained (as I also mentioned above), but there were other strange things (not involving Mimara or her powers) occurring at that time. I think the fact that the whole situation took place in a topos can mitigate some of the doubts about it, and (at least for me) it doesn't break suspension of disbelief. I do hope Mimara's character continues evolving in a way that makes sense within the narrative, as much as I may like the character and believe her claims, I wouldn't want her whole arc to be ruined by a deus ex machina situation at the end of the series.


The Second Apocalypse lacks those signs almost completely, and they are most certainly not present in anything that concerns metaphysics (there are some plot aspects that are suspect to me, for example, but nothing that comes even close to unraveling the whole series; it's a huge achievement of Bakker in my eyes). This is why I think that many elements that solve the mystery of Mimara are already present in the narrative. Present and stated or at least alluded to. This is good form, and it was always a mark of the series. And this is why I'm loath to accept as an argument, especially in the case of Mimara, something explicitly not stated or alluded to in the books.

This was my point concerning the claim that Mimara might be different from other women with the Judging Eye. There is no statement that I can remember that comes even close to suggesting something like this. So, while possible and not outrageous, it is still unsupported, unlike many other things that we have clear evidence of.

Very true, and like I just said above, I hope the series keeps evolving in this same way.
My faith on the character's abilities never meant that I considered that the other women with the JE were not as special. I already addressed the idea of Mimara's special status out-of-universe. Where the JE is concerned in-universe, yes, we have no evidence that any other woman with the JE could not do anything Mimara does. I think that if Mimara does turn out to be a true prophet, then all other women with the JE most likely also had that very same potential. Of course, as circumstances are important, the events in their lives, the point of history they lived in, etc. did not lead to the same outcome as Mimara's specific situation.

And now, I think it would be a good idea to move the Mimara discussion to a brand new thread. :)

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General Earwa / Mimara's abilities and status as a prophet
« on: June 09, 2018, 01:49:19 pm »
Since my previous thread evolved into a discussion about Mimara, the JE, and her abilities and status as a prophet, I figured it was best to create a brand new thread to continue that particular avenue of discussion.

Right now I don't have anything else to add, but I'll look into a few quotes/passages and see what I can find.

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