[profgrape]

I stumbled across the following passage during my current re-read of TTT.  It's from Cnaiur's perspective:

Unlike the Inrithi, he did not stand with within the circle of the Dunyain's deceit.  Where they saw things from within, he saw them from without.  He saw more.  It was strange the way beliefs could have an inside and an outside, that what looked like hope or truth or love from within could be a scythe or a hammer, things wielded for other ends, when seen from without.

This is awesome for so many reasons: the fact that RSB uses the words "inside" and "outside"; the fact that it's about belief and perspective, two of the series' most prevalent themes; that it's coming from Cnaiur of all people.  I suspect that it says as much about Earwan metaphysics as we're ever going to learn.

[mrganondorf]

Rereading TTT, the final scene between Cnaiur and Moenghus, and this struck me...

"Suddenly Cnaiur could feel it: the miles of earth heaped above them, the clawing inversion of ground.  He had come too far.  He had crawled too deep.

The sword dropped from the stranger's senseless fingers, rang like something pathetic across the floor.  His face broke, like a thing wrapped about twitching vermin.  The sobs whispered across the pitted stone."

Was Cnaiur a skin-spy?

Also, when Cnaiur sees Serwe after Moe dies, I just assumed that he was seeing one of the 2 skin-spies that came down with him, but I suppose there are other interpretations: 1) it's just a hallucination, 2) it's one of the skin-spies that had been captured by Moe, 3) Serwe or something in Serwe's guise is appearing from the Outside.

Also also, I wonder if Cnaiur's feeling of going too deep is

(click to show/hide)

smaller version of what the nonmen felt.  Of what Cleric aludes to, I think at the end of TJE in his conversation with the Wight.

EDIT: Isn't there something in Dune about the significance of having a face-dancer believe that they were in fact the person that they replaced?  Musing about why it would be neat to have a skin-spy Cnaiur who really believes he is Cnaiur

[themerchant]

I think he is describing what a face looks like when it has a breakdown, as opposed to him being a skinspy.

[mrganondorf]

I think he is describing what a face looks like when it has a breakdown, as opposed to him being a skinspy.

most likely, but i wonder if Bakker left himself some wiggle room...

[mrganondorf]

I was just wondering--when I read/listen to PON, I find myself understanding Kellhus via Cnaiur's perspective.  I wonder if this is a trick on Bakker's part.  Cnaiur's pov on Kellhus is so compelling it might put blinders on the reader for other interpretations.  Maybe???

[The Sharmat]

We've also seen Kellhus from Kellhus' POV and he does use words, beliefs, and emotions as tools to shape the world around him in a calculated manner.