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General Earwa / WARNING! SPOILERS FOR ALL TSA!! Analogues and Cognates???
« on: April 20, 2015, 04:44:42 am »
Not sure if this thread already exists, I've glanced around but didn't find one, but I have seen scattershot posts on the subject.
Basically this is just for what analogues or cognates do you find between Bakker's Earwa, Herbert's DUNE, Tolkien's Middle-Earth, and real world History?
I will list some.
Bakker and Tolkien
Nonmen of Viri - Sindarin Elves
Nonmen of Siol - Noldorin Elves
{I know the Nonmen are not as defined / divergent as Noldor and Sindar, just illustrating the relative supremacy of one to the other, the Siol Cunuroi seem to be the Highest among the Nonmen}.
Nonman Tutelage - First and Second Ages where Edain and Eldar had friendship in the Northwest
Inniur-Shigogli - The Plateau of Gorgoroth
Golgotterath - Barad-Dur
Dunyain - Dunedain (of the Lost Realm of Arnor)
Oirinas and Oirunas (Twin Sons of Siol) - Amrod and Amras (Twin Sons of Feanor)
Kuniuri - Either Numenor or Arnor
Half-Elven
Dior (Beren and Luthien)
Earendil (Tuor and Idril)
Elwing (Dior and Nimloth)
Elrond and Elros (Earendil and Elwing)
Cunuroi-Halaroi Hybrids
Cimoira - Mentioned in Isuphiryas. Daughter of Sirwitta the Emwama and the wife of an Ishroi. Accepted as Cunuroi.
Anasurimbor Sanna-Jephera "Twoheart" (Anasurimbor Omindalea and Nonman Siqu, Jiricet). Sanna-Neorje (Father) adopts Sanna-Jephera as heir to the Anasurimbor Dynasty of Umerau. Possibly point at which Nonman ancestry enters Anasurimbor line.
Anasurimbor Nanor-Ukkerja I, High King of Kuniuri, lived to be 178, the reputed result of Nonman blood. Anasurimbors Moenghus and Kellhus are descendants.
Sranc and Bashrag - Orcs and Trolls
The No-God - Melkor
Mekeretrig - Sauron
Cu'Jara Cinmoi's Pursuit of Nin'Janjin's offer of Immortality - Ar-Pharazon the Golden's Pursuit Immortality via Sauron's urge to go against the Ban of the Valar.
Both rulers brought about the ruin of their Kingdoms/Peoples in pursuit of Immortality.
Bakker and Herbert
Haven't read every DUNE book so a lot less familiar on this front...
Dunyain - Bene Gesserit
Consult - Honored Matres
Anasurimbor Kellhus - Paul Atreides
Aspect-Emperor Kellhus - God Emperor Leto
The Straight Path / The Thousandfold Thought - The Golden Path
Skin-Spies - Face Dancers
Bakker and Real World
Ajencis - Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? Unsure...
Stajanas II (Ruminations) - Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)
Emwama - Ancient Earwan Men, possibly similar to Erectus or Neanderthals
Five Tribes of Men
Norsirai - Germanic, Norse, Finnish, Celtic
Zeum - Nilotic or African
Ketyai - Mediterranean, Indo-Iranian, Mesopotamian, Semitic, Afro-Asiatic
Xiuhianni - Mongolian, Sino-Tibetan
Scylvendi - Scythians, Sarmatians, Cimmerians
Should be noted that heritability of genes and traits seems to work differently in the Bakkerverse as opposed to the real world, though.
Inri Sejenus, Inrithism - Jesus Christ, Catholicism
Fan'oukarji I, Fanimry - Mohammed, Islam
Kiunnat Traditionalists of Nilnamesh - Hinduism and related Dharmic practices
Kyraneas, Ceneian Empire, Nansurium - Mycenean Greek / Etruscan, Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire
Kidruhil - Cataphracts or Klibinarii
Shiradi Empire, Cengemis, Conriya, High Ainon - Unsure on these... Conriyan Knights seem reminiscent of Cataphracts or 12-Cent. Frankish Knights.
The Ancient North: Umeri Empire, Kuniuri, Meori Empire, Aorsi - Essentially the Ancient Near Middle East, transplanted to the North. Sumerian, Assyrian, Akkadians, Kassite Babylonians, Elamites, Hittites, and Mitanni with Norse or Germanic elements.
The Middle North: Galeoth, Thunyerus, Ce'Tydonn - Goths, Thurungians, Norse and Saxons.
Nron - Cyprus
Nilnamesh - India
Girgash - Persians, Medes, Aryans
Kian - The Arabic Caliphate
Nenciphon - Baghdad
Eumarna, Enathpanea, Xerash, Gedea - The Levant, Syria, Judea
Shimeh - Jerusalem
Shigek / Chemerat - Ancient Egypt, Ancient Mesopotamia
Zeum - Mali, Ghana, Songhay, Nubia?? A relatively isolated and remote people.
Excluding the Sorcerous Schools, the technology and aesthetic of Earwa in the 4th Millennium seems very similar to 11th, 12th, and 13th century Eurasia...
Lots of hauberks, mail, and I'm assuming some gambesons (padded jackets), scale armor, klivanions (or lamellar armor) is what is being worn by the majority of the Ketyai and Norsirai in these stories.
As opposed to heavy Romantic and Gothic tourney plate amor of 15h and 16th century Europe and Game of Thrones...
The Nonmen - Ancient Greeks and Romans at the peak of their classicism and beauty, with copious doses of LSD, DMT, opium and cocaine.
Please offer suggestions or criticisms. I am sure I am missing or misinterpreting a lot here.
Basically this is just for what analogues or cognates do you find between Bakker's Earwa, Herbert's DUNE, Tolkien's Middle-Earth, and real world History?
I will list some.
Bakker and Tolkien
Nonmen of Viri - Sindarin Elves
Nonmen of Siol - Noldorin Elves
{I know the Nonmen are not as defined / divergent as Noldor and Sindar, just illustrating the relative supremacy of one to the other, the Siol Cunuroi seem to be the Highest among the Nonmen}.
Nonman Tutelage - First and Second Ages where Edain and Eldar had friendship in the Northwest
Inniur-Shigogli - The Plateau of Gorgoroth
Golgotterath - Barad-Dur
Dunyain - Dunedain (of the Lost Realm of Arnor)
Oirinas and Oirunas (Twin Sons of Siol) - Amrod and Amras (Twin Sons of Feanor)
Kuniuri - Either Numenor or Arnor
Half-Elven
Dior (Beren and Luthien)
Earendil (Tuor and Idril)
Elwing (Dior and Nimloth)
Elrond and Elros (Earendil and Elwing)
Cunuroi-Halaroi Hybrids
Cimoira - Mentioned in Isuphiryas. Daughter of Sirwitta the Emwama and the wife of an Ishroi. Accepted as Cunuroi.
Anasurimbor Sanna-Jephera "Twoheart" (Anasurimbor Omindalea and Nonman Siqu, Jiricet). Sanna-Neorje (Father) adopts Sanna-Jephera as heir to the Anasurimbor Dynasty of Umerau. Possibly point at which Nonman ancestry enters Anasurimbor line.
Anasurimbor Nanor-Ukkerja I, High King of Kuniuri, lived to be 178, the reputed result of Nonman blood. Anasurimbors Moenghus and Kellhus are descendants.
Sranc and Bashrag - Orcs and Trolls
The No-God - Melkor
Mekeretrig - Sauron
Cu'Jara Cinmoi's Pursuit of Nin'Janjin's offer of Immortality - Ar-Pharazon the Golden's Pursuit Immortality via Sauron's urge to go against the Ban of the Valar.
Both rulers brought about the ruin of their Kingdoms/Peoples in pursuit of Immortality.
Bakker and Herbert
Haven't read every DUNE book so a lot less familiar on this front...
Dunyain - Bene Gesserit
Consult - Honored Matres
Anasurimbor Kellhus - Paul Atreides
Aspect-Emperor Kellhus - God Emperor Leto
The Straight Path / The Thousandfold Thought - The Golden Path
Skin-Spies - Face Dancers
Bakker and Real World
Ajencis - Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? Unsure...
Stajanas II (Ruminations) - Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)
Emwama - Ancient Earwan Men, possibly similar to Erectus or Neanderthals
Five Tribes of Men
Norsirai - Germanic, Norse, Finnish, Celtic
Zeum - Nilotic or African
Ketyai - Mediterranean, Indo-Iranian, Mesopotamian, Semitic, Afro-Asiatic
Xiuhianni - Mongolian, Sino-Tibetan
Scylvendi - Scythians, Sarmatians, Cimmerians
Should be noted that heritability of genes and traits seems to work differently in the Bakkerverse as opposed to the real world, though.
Inri Sejenus, Inrithism - Jesus Christ, Catholicism
Fan'oukarji I, Fanimry - Mohammed, Islam
Kiunnat Traditionalists of Nilnamesh - Hinduism and related Dharmic practices
Kyraneas, Ceneian Empire, Nansurium - Mycenean Greek / Etruscan, Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire
Kidruhil - Cataphracts or Klibinarii
Shiradi Empire, Cengemis, Conriya, High Ainon - Unsure on these... Conriyan Knights seem reminiscent of Cataphracts or 12-Cent. Frankish Knights.
The Ancient North: Umeri Empire, Kuniuri, Meori Empire, Aorsi - Essentially the Ancient Near Middle East, transplanted to the North. Sumerian, Assyrian, Akkadians, Kassite Babylonians, Elamites, Hittites, and Mitanni with Norse or Germanic elements.
The Middle North: Galeoth, Thunyerus, Ce'Tydonn - Goths, Thurungians, Norse and Saxons.
Nron - Cyprus
Nilnamesh - India
Girgash - Persians, Medes, Aryans
Kian - The Arabic Caliphate
Nenciphon - Baghdad
Eumarna, Enathpanea, Xerash, Gedea - The Levant, Syria, Judea
Shimeh - Jerusalem
Shigek / Chemerat - Ancient Egypt, Ancient Mesopotamia
Zeum - Mali, Ghana, Songhay, Nubia?? A relatively isolated and remote people.
Excluding the Sorcerous Schools, the technology and aesthetic of Earwa in the 4th Millennium seems very similar to 11th, 12th, and 13th century Eurasia...
Lots of hauberks, mail, and I'm assuming some gambesons (padded jackets), scale armor, klivanions (or lamellar armor) is what is being worn by the majority of the Ketyai and Norsirai in these stories.
As opposed to heavy Romantic and Gothic tourney plate amor of 15h and 16th century Europe and Game of Thrones...
The Nonmen - Ancient Greeks and Romans at the peak of their classicism and beauty, with copious doses of LSD, DMT, opium and cocaine.
Please offer suggestions or criticisms. I am sure I am missing or misinterpreting a lot here.