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61
Author Q&A / Kellhus' Children's Names
« on: March 11, 2016, 01:30:30 pm »
Kayûtas - A reference to Nau-Cayûti?
Theliopa - ?
Serwa - A Serwë reference.
Inrilatas - A reference to Inri Sejenus?
Samarmas - Samarmau Uän, one of the Pragma?
Kelmomas - A reference to Celmomas.

This leave Theliopa as the only one I am thoroughly clueless as to where the name come from.  The only thing I could puzzle is a reference to Aethelarius, but I am certainly stretching there.

62
The Almanac: TAE Edition / The Slog TJE - Chapters 4-6 [Spoilers]
« on: March 10, 2016, 11:58:01 am »
Chapter 4:

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But more and more the different eye seems to open, one that has perplexed her for many years—that frightens her like an unwanted yen for perversion.

So, later Akka will tell her that the Judging Eye involves pregnant women, yet, here we are told how Mimara has had it for years.

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"He says it himself, Every life is a cipher..." Another deep inhalation. "A riddle."

"And you think Seswatha's life is such."

"I know it is."

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Mandate Schoolmen claim to relive Seswatha's life, but this is only partially true. In fact, we dream only portions, the long trauma of the First Apocalypse. All we dream is the spectacle. 'Seswatha,' the old Mandate joke goes, 'does not shit.' The banalities—the substance of his life—is missing... The truth of his life is missing."

I had mentioned before, I do think the Dreams are becoming more truthful.  However, I still think that the truth is intertwined with the propaganda of the usual Dreams.

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His hatred of Kellhus she finds understandable, though she herself bears no grudge against her stepfather. She barely knows the Aspect-Emperor, and those rare times she found herself alone with him on the Andiamine Heights—twice—he seemed at once radiant and tragic, perhaps the most immediate and obvious soul she had ever encountered.

I think once upon a time, there was speculation that Kellhus might be the father of Mimara's child.  This quote certainly seems to refute that well.

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Bundling a blanket about her nakedness, she crawls to the dim bed of coals, where she sits, rocking herself between clutched arms and rough folds, trying to squeeze away the memory of skidding skin, the wheezing of old man exertions.

...

"We have made our first mistake together," he says, as though it were something significant. "We will not make it again."

I think I had sort of overlooked this the first time I had read it.  I think there is little doubt that Akka is Mimara's child's father.

63
Author Q&A / Angeshraël and Mount Eshki
« on: March 09, 2016, 01:09:51 pm »
I have a pet theory that Angeshraël didn't meet Husyelt on Mount Eshki, but rather an Inchoroi (probably Aurang) who convinced him to lead the Tribes to Break the Gates and into Earwa.

Is this actually what happened?  If not, why would Husyelt have cared if Men were in Eärwa or Eänna?  It only makes sense to me that the Inchoroi manipulation of Men, culminated with the gifting of the edited Tusk, must have started with Angeshraël there on the mountain.  That isn't even to get into the parallel between our known Inchoroi goad of the Inverse Fire and the fact that Angeshraël bows into a fire.

Any thoughts?

64
The Almanac: TAE Edition / The Slog TJE - Chapters 1-3 [Spoilers]
« on: March 07, 2016, 12:30:27 pm »
Prologue:

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"Scalper!" the lone traveller cried out. His voice possessed the gravel of an old officer's bawl.

A clue as to the identity of the traveler perhaps?

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The one the secret voice had told him to drive away.

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If he fails, the secret voice said, he will die.

Anasûrimbor Kelmomas smiled what seemed his first true smile of the day.

The voice is probably one of the biggest mysteries that I honestly don't have a grasp on.  I don't think it is Kellhus, or the Consult.  My best guess would be one of the gods, but there is the possibility that is really is Samarmas.  I doubt this though, I think that the twin's death simply left Kel open to the influence of the Outside.

Only managed to make it through the prologue, but we've began the true Slog!

65
OK, so we are through all of the Prince of Nothing!

Cast is impending, but we are ever marching forward, so thinking of TJE I was considering the following breakdown for the threads:

Prologue and chapters 1-3.
Chapters 4-6.
Chapters 7-9.
Chapters 10-12.
Chapters 13-14.
Chapters 15-16 plus Interlude.

Why this way?  Mainly because chapters 14 and 16 are very big and will no doubt having a good amount of discussion about them.

66
Chapter 16:

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“When did you realize you didn’t possess the strength,” Kellhus asked, “that more was needed to avert the No-God’s second coming?”
“From the very first I recognized that it was probable,” Moënghus said. “But I spent years assessing the possibilities, gathering knowledge. When the first of the Thought came to me, I was quite unprepared.”

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“In this world,” Moënghus said, “there’s nothing more precious than our blood—as you have no doubt surmised. But the children we bear by worldborn women lack the breadth of our abilities. Maithanet is not Dûnyain. He could do no more than prepare the way.”

Indeed, I think here we learn something very important.  It isn't just the training that makes Kellhus what he is, they specifically bred the Anisurimbor blood.  The Nonman blood.  This is why Kellhus is more.

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“You speak as though the Thought were a living thing.”
He could see nothing in the eyeless face.
“Because it is.” Moënghus stepped between the two hanging skin-spies. Though blind, he unerringly reached out to run a finger down one of the many hanging chains. “Have you heard of a game played in southern Nilnamesh, a game called viramsata, or ‘many-breaths’?”

This is the lesson.  This is the whole purpose of the encounter.  Kellhus learns that he makes the lies true.  Is is the living lie, the new lie to overtake Moe.

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Let him think I waver.

This is where the honesty ends.  Before this, I think the Kellhus is proving to Moe that he really has grasped TTT.  After this he plays at attempting to deceive Moe.

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“Set aside your conviction,” Moënghus said, “for the feeling of certainty is no more a marker of truth than the feeling of will is a marker of freedom. Deceived men always think themselves certain, just as they always think themselves free. This is simply what it means to be deceived.”
Kellhus looked to the haloes about his hands, wondered that they could be light and yet cast no light, throw no shadow … The light of delusion.

Again, Kellhus learning that he is living a lie, but that it doesn't matter.  It's a lie, but a lie he will make true.

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For the Dûnyain, it was axiomatic: what was compliant had to be isolated from what was unruly and intractable. Kellhus had seen it many times, wandering the labyrinth of possibilities that was the Thousandfold Thought: The Warrior-Prophet’s assassination. The rise of Anasûrimbor Moënghus to take his place. The apocalyptic conspiracies. The counterfeit war against Golgotterath. The accumulation of premeditated disasters. The sacrifice of whole nations to the gluttony of the Sranc. The Three Seas crashing into char and ruin.
The Gods baying like wolves at a silent gate.
Perhaps his father had yet to apprehend this. Perhaps he simply couldn’t see past the arrival of his son. Or perhaps all this—the accusations of madness, the concern over his unanticipated turn—was simply a ruse. Either way, it was irrelevant.

This part is very interesting for the future implications, because it's a theory floated often as to what Kellhus is really after in The Aspect Emperor.  Here, he imagines what he cannot allow to happen, what a Dunyain would do, the implication being, of course, what he won't do.  Or is it?  Is it rather that he won't allow Moe to exact this.

The latter part seems to speak more to the truth.  Kellhus even admits at the very beginning of this encounter that he knows he walks on Conditioned ground.  Yet, now he doubts Moe could have considered the possibility of his father having anticipated all this?

I find only one way to reconcile all this, in my mind.  It is that the entirety of the encounter is premeditated by Moe simply to remove any doubt from Kellhus.  Kellhus muses how he has "labyrinth of possibilities that was the Thousandfold Thought" and I think Moe would have known this.  What he does now, in allowing Kellhus to seemingly master the situation is lock in the path of this new Thousandfold Thought.

Cycling back around, this is the whole purpose of the Holy War, the whole purpose of it all, to train up Kellhus to be the new Thousandfold Thought, to take it where Moe was simply unable to.

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Serwë assailed him first, her limbs and blade a whirring blur. But he stopped her with blue-flashing hands, swatted aside her slender figure …
Just as her brother descended, slashing at impossible palms, spinning and kicking, lunging and probing—only to be seized about the throat, to gape and thrash as the blind man lifted him off his feet, to blister and burn as blue light consumed his head, made a candle of his body. The thing’s face cramped open and the blind man threw him slack to the ground.

Consider how easily, even having been stabbed, he dispatches the skin-spies.  Yet, we're to believe he couldn't do a thing to prevent Kellhus stabbing him?

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I am dying, Nayu.” Hot whispers in his ear. “I need your strength …

And what might be the most cryptic quote in the whole series.

He needs his strength for what?  If it isn't for a soul transfer, then for what?  Could he have foreseen their arrival?  Or did Moe have something else planned, but took the opportunity when it presented itself?

67
Chapter 13:

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Simas counselled immediate attack. “As far as we know,” he cried, “the Second Apocalypse has already begun! No matter who owns the deed to these galleys, we can only assume that the Consult commands them. We’ve always known they would attempt to destroy us in the opening days. And now, with the Harbinger, this so-called Warrior-Prophet … Think, my brothers. What would the Consult do? Wouldn’t they risk anything to prevent us from joining the Holy War? We must strike!”

Oh, Simas, of course you realize that they gig it up...

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He could remember, perfectly, what it had been like those three years past, stepping from the shadow of Ishuäl’s Fallow Gate. Countless tracks had fanned out from his feet, leading to countless possible outcomes. But unlike a tree, he could war only in one direction. With every step he murdered alternatives, collapsed future after future, walking a line too thin to be marked on any map. For so long he had believed that line, that track, belonged to him, as though his every footfall had been a monstrous decision for which he alone could be called to account. Step after step, annihilating world after possible world, warring until only this moment survived …
But those futures, he now knew, had been murdered long before. The ground he travelled had been Conditioned through and through. At every turn, the probabilities had been summed, the possibilities averaged, the forks impossibly predetermined … Even here, standing before Shimeh, he executed but one operation in the skein of another’s godlike calculation. Even here, his every decision, his every act, confirmed the dread intent of the Thousandfold Thought.

Indeed, it is interesting to see Kellhus admit that he is not moving on his own.  In fact, I think this is the very reason why he kills Moe, because he realizes that he would never be actually self-moving as long as Moe is alive.

This does beg the interesting question of when does Kellhus step off this path?

68
Onward, chapter 10:

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Kellhus grinned. “They can’t see that gold is only relevant insofar as it plays a role within our expectations—insofar as we make it relevant …

Eh, this quote just struck me, as pointing out just how much Kellhus manipulates them all...

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He blinked, frowning … Was that the Mark he sensed?
A sorcerous bird?

Hmm, I had forgotten that the Mandate didn't know of the synthese, just like they didn't know of the skin-spies.

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The Warrior-Prophet turned to him, clutched his shoulder with a shining hand. “The Truth of Here is that it is Everywhere. And this, Akka, is what it means to be in love: to recognize the Here within the other, to see the world through another’s eyes. To be here together.”

This whole part, while it sounds as if Kellhus is making profound statements, laying bare the fundamental truth of being in Earwa, I still can't help but think that it's not really true, it just him whelming Akka.

69
Chapter 7:

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“Sompas says lights were sighted on your private terrace,” Conphas remarked. His tone was offhand in the probing way of devious family members. “What was it?” he asked, glancing at the man. “Some four or five days ago?”

I presume these were lights from the Synthese?

Not much else in this chapter I found for analysis.  The whole episode with Conphas escaping and reinforcements arriving, I don't know that Kellhus would have actually predicted this, but I think he knew something was going to happen.  Setting Cnaiür and Conphas against each other and apart from the Holy War, I think Kellhus figured that one would destroy the other and so leave him with only one problem in the end.

70
On to Chapter 4 this morning:

It begins with the skin-spy Istriya killing Xerius, not much new learned there.

The next part is curious, it's an awfully long section that is seemingly just to tell us that Maithanet traveled.  I can't help but feel there must be something I am missing here, but I have never been able to find it.

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Whenever Achamian asked him why he continued to march on Shimeh when the Fanim were no more than a distraction, he always said, “If I’m to succeed my brother, I must reclaim his house.”

Curious that Kellhus refers to Moe as his "brother" and I think this is in part to keep Akka from knowing his true intentions.  There is also the possibiliy that Kellhus really does regard Moe more as a brother than a father, considering that, in reality, he was raised by the Pragma not his father (or, presumably, his mother).

Chapter 5 tomorrow though.

71
And onward though TTT we go.

Notes on Chapter 1:

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After millennia of practising sorcery, the Quya bore a Mark that was far, far deeper than that borne by any Schoolmen—like indigo compared with water. Despite their preternatural beauty, despite the porcelain whiteness of their skin, they seemed blasted, blackened, and withered, a husk of cinders at once animate and extinct. Some, it was said, were so deeply Marked that they couldn’t stand within a length of a Chorae without beginning to salt.

An interesting aside we are given about the deepness of the Mark and Chorae.

Also, this dream about Seswatha on the Wall at Dagliash, has always had me wonder, how did he get away?

Chapter 2:

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Eleäzaras had watched him reach into his chest and pull out his fucking heart!
Some kind of trick … it had to be!

Is this the first time someone actually says flat-out what they saw?

Chapter 3:

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Iyokus screamed the words, but there was a flash of something brighter than lightning. The pure dispensation of force, unmuted by image or interpretation.

An explanation, of sorts, on how the Gnosis' power comes from it's direct application, no need for representational ciphers, it is force, pure and undiluted.

Anyone else find anything of particular note?

72
General Earwa / Onkis and Siöl - A Copper Tree Connection
« on: February 02, 2016, 04:09:11 pm »
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Inrau had found his grotto in the shrine of Onkis, the Singer-in-the-Dark, the Aspect who stood at the heart of all men, moving them to forever grasp far more than they could hold.

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Some were grotesque, like the severed head of Onkis upon a golden tree [...]

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The idol was worked in white marble, eyes closed with the sunken look of the dead. At first glance she appeared to be the severed head of a woman, beautiful yet vaguely common, mounted on a pole. Anything more than a glance, however, revealed the pole to be a miniature tree, like those cultivated by the ancient Norsirai, only worked in bronze. Branches poked through her parted lips and swept across her face—nature reborn through human lips. Other branches reached behind to break through her frozen hair. Her image never failed to stir something within him, and this is why he always returned to her: she was this stirring, the dark place where the flurries of his thought arose. She came before him.

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Her symbol is the Copper Tree (which also happens to be the device of the legendary Nonman Mansion of Siol, though no link has been established).

From Duskweaver here, sometime in the distant past:

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Specifically the mansion of Siöl. Onkis' version has the tree growing through a woman's head, though. Which inclines me to wonder if perhaps it's a reference to Cû’jara-Cinmoi's forgiveness of Nin'janjin, a mercy which led directly to the womb-plague which claimed as its first victim Cû’jara-Cinmoi's own wife. It'd be funny if the symbol of the goddess of compassion was actually a warning about the dangers of extending compassion to those who don't merit it...

Onkis is also described as "a prophetess, not of the future, but of the motivations of Men", which makes her sound a bit like a Dûnyain. Arguably, of course, that's what 'compassion' really means: understanding the movement of others' souls. It does not necessarily have to imply 'being nice'.

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I think what links them are the concept of ambition (IIRC, Onkis is said to tempt men to always try to grasp more than they can hold - as Cu'jara Cinmoi did in conquering Viri) and the way in which our present choices are constrained by history (i.e. they seem to spread out freely like the branches of a tree, but are in fact held within strict bounds by where the tree first rooted - by what has come before us).

So, I really don't believe that the pointing out of the similarity between Onkis' symbol and the Copper Tree of Siöl is a coincidence.  The fact is that we are purposely left with little information as to what happened to Siöl after the Apocalypse.  We know what became of Ishterebinth, and Cil-Aujas, yet Siöl was regarded as the great mansion and we don't even know where it is.  We are offered only clues, of which I believe one of is the Copper Tree connection.

Two alternative possibilites:

Considering that Onkis was perhaps created by the fall of Siöl, or the process there-within, by the Nonmen themselves, attempting to worship their dead wives, perhaps in the hope that some redemption could be found in piety for their earlier over-reachto attain immortality.  There is anecdotal evidence that immortality wrecked the old Oblivion-worship for the Nonmen, perhaps because the rewriting of the Tusk damned them a priori.

Perhaps even created the Norsirai  that probably destroyed the mansion, or at least took over the area that once comprised Siöl stumbled upon a topoi (perhaps a mass grave of the Siöli women?).  Consider the image, a statue of a copper tree, over witch a wright, like the one in Cil-Aujas, appears to them, looking as a head with a tree grown through it.  Pretty sure that would make a good impression on early Men, perhaps inspiring what would become worshiped as Onkis.

Just some ideas that randomly came to me.

73
Just finished chapter 1.

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Staring at Serwë, not because she reminded him of Esmi—as he told himself—but because the way she stared at Kellhus worried him—as though she knew something …

Hmm, seemingly more evidence to the Serwë as being central to Kellhus' eventually prophet status.

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“How is it that … that you see these things? No matter how deep I peer …”
“Ah,” Kellhus laughed. “You’re starting to sound like my father’s tutors.”

His father's tutors?  So, the Pragma?

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Who am I? he would often think, listening to Kellhus’s melodious voice. What do you see?

This is a curious quote...foreshadowing perhaps?

74
The Slog continues.

Boss is away, so we mice may play.  I just finished Chapter 9.

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I survived, Akka. And I did not survive.
Esmenet stooped before the child and astounded her with the gold talent.
“Here,” she said, pressing it into small palms.
So like my daughter.

I never realized the extreme nature of this spoiler.  At first reading, I thought that the child reminded her of Mimara.  Yet, on rereading, the two italicized (they are so in the text as well) lines are really one line.

Also, I think there is the possibility that the smell of myrrh is actually that of the Synthese, considering it is present when Aurang comes to Esme in this chapter, then flying away.

75
General Earwa / The Origin and Practicalities of the Tusk
« on: November 04, 2015, 05:41:49 pm »
OK, so some interesting questions were raised about The Tusk, as in, how it was made, why a Tusk, and so on.

Here's some collected thoughts I had:

First off we had an interested quote from Scott, in an interview on Pat's Fantasy Hotlist:
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So the Inchoroi began giving them (Chorae) to the Men of Eärwa, hoping to incite them to rebellion. But the Halaroi had no stomach for rousing a feared, and most importantly, absent master, and so rendered the deadly gifts to their Nonmen overlords. The Inchoroi then looked to Eänna, where the Men were both more fierce and more naive. They gave the Chorae to the Five Tribes as gifts, and to one tribe, the black-haired Ketyai, they gave a great tusk inscribed with their hallowed laws and most revered stories–as well as one devious addition: the divine imperative to invade the ‘Land of the Felled Sun’ and hunt down and exterminate the ‘False Men.

This made me think that the Inchoroi gave the Tusk to the Ketyai before the Breaking of the Gates.  However, in tDtCB we're told:

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Ribboned by characters, the Tusk recorded the great migratory invasions that marked the ascendancy of Men in Eärwa.

Well, that is interesting.  Two possibilities here: either the Tusk was inscribed with this information before the Breaking, meaning that all human migration was planned and directed by the Inchoroi, or the Tusk post-dates the Breaking.  Each is interesting in their own way, the first even further pointing out that the Tusk is viramsata not just spiritually, but actually directed the Tribes to certain places (most likely being the location of specific Nonmen mansions).

On the other hand, if the Tusk was inscribed after the Breaking, well, then Year 0 of the Tusk is not the Breaking of the Gates, it's the inscribing of the Tusk.  There is a further curiosity as well, which is the complete lack of any information on the Cûno-Halaroi Wars, which would seem kind of critical information.  If they felt like inscribing migratory information, why not inscribe the fighting they saw there too?

There is, of course, another option, that being the idea that the Tusk predated the Breaking, but was simply not inscribed.  The question then would be how did the Ketyai get it to Sumna?  Perhaps that is what Scott is saying that the Inchoroi gave it to the Ketyai, that they brought it from Eanna to Earwa for them, and presented it with the inscriptions.  More on this later.

The glossery entry for the Tusk says:
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Since the Tusk bears the oldest extant version of The Chronicle of the Tusk, which in turn is the oldest human text, its provenance remains an utter mystery, though most scholars agree that it predates the coming of the Tribes to Eärwa.

And yet, the glossary entry for the Chronicle says:
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It consists of the following six books:
 
Book of Canticles—The old “Tusk Laws” regarding every aspect of personal and public life, which were superseded in the Inrithi tradition by the revised strictures of The Tractate.
Book of Gods—The primary scripture of the Cults, enumerating the various gods, and explaining the rites of purification and propitiation basic to each.
Book of Hintarates—The story of Hintarates, an upright man plagued with apparently undeserved adversity.
Book of Songs—A collection of verse prayers and parables extolling the virtues of piety, manliness, courage, and tribal loyalty.
Book of Tribes—The extended narrative of the first Prophets and Chieftain-Kings of the Five Tribes of Men before the invasion of Eärwa.
Book of Warrants—The account of the observances governing the interactions between castes.

None of those books would seem to detail "the great migratory invasions that marked the ascendancy of Men in Eärwa" that is said the Tusk has inscribed on it in tDtCB.  So, was that just an error on Scott's part?  Or is it that the Chronicle is the real "holy work" and the Tusk was just it's manipulation?

Also, the matter of Angeshraël, who is "most famed Old Prophet of the Tusk, responsible for leading the Five Tribes of Men into Eärwa," of whom we are told by Kellhus:
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When he had eaten and was content, sacred Husyelt, the Holy Stalker, joined him at his fire, for the Gods in those days had not left the world in the charge of Men. Angeshraël, recognizing the God as the God, fell immediately to his knees before the fire, not thinking where he would throw his face.”

Angeshraël bows himself into a fire, in the presence of a "god" who still walked the world?  A fire that does not consume him, but enlightens him, in other words an Inverse Fire?  What a coincidence that after meeting this "god" he does exactly as the Inchoroi would want him to do, that is, lead the Tribes to Break the Gates.  I think that Angeshraël actually met Aurang on Mount Eshki, where he was seduced by the "truth" as presented in the Fire.  Aurang convinced him to lead the Tribes into Earwa, since he knew that they were losing to the Nonmen, that the Ark was under such siege that it was time to take the fight to the Nonmen's mansions.

OK, enought crack-pot for now, weigh in guys on how far off you think I am.

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