“My wife,” he groaned, testing the mettle of his chains for the first time. “Iëva!”

         “Has committed...” one of the ancient mouths warbled.

         “Such crimes...”

         “What was her price...” he coughed. “Tell me!”   

         “She sheeks only...” the bloody one bubbled.

         “To save her soul...”

This is a quote from Chapter 1 of TUC.  Indeed, it had me thinking of why did Iëva betray?  After reading that part, I thought she traded Nau-Cayûti for "salvation" but then I stumbled back upon one of Akka's dreams:

Through closed eyes he watched her, Ieva, his wife of seven years, scurry naked to the cabinet across their spare room and produce a philtre, which she considered with an expression hung between terror and gloating. She turned to him, her face thin and cruel.
"How she will weep," she growled, "the filthy whore... And I will see it, and savour it, the breaking of her heart when she learns her beloved Prince has died in his wife's arms!"
He tried to call out as she leaned above him, holding the black tube with medicinal care. But he was sleeping and could not move.
"But you will not die, my heroic husband. Oh no! For I will fall upon your corpse, and I will wail-wail-wail, claiming to the Bull Heavens that you demanded to be buried rather than burned—like a Nonman!"
He tried to spit the foul liquid she poured between his teeth. He tried to reach up and out, seize her pale neck...
"Oh my husband!" she cried in a whisper. "My dear-dear husband! How could you not see the grudge I hold against thee? But you will know it, soon enough. When you are delivered, when you are beaten and broken—then you will know the compass of my spite!"

She doesn't seem very concerned with her soul here.  She seems very concerned with someone else, so I went back and dug up this:

Then, in 2140, Nau-Cayûti’s beloved concubine, Aulisi, was abducted by Sranc marauders and taken to Golgotterath. According to The Sagas, Seswatha was able to convince the Prince (who was once his student) that she could be rescued from the Incû-Holoinas, and the two of them embarked on an expedition that is almost certainly apocryphal. Mandate commentators dispute the account found in The Sagas, where they successfully return with both Aulisi and the Heron Spear, claiming that Aulisi was never found. Whatever happened, at least two things are certain: the Heron Spear was in fact recovered, and Nau-Cayûti died shortly after (apparently poisoned by his first wife, Iëva).

So, the Mandate are almost certainly lying.  Aulisi did come back and seemingly, it drove Iëva to murder Nau-Cayûti.  Or did Aulisi directly drive Iëva to it?  Perhaps she was made into a sleeper agent?  Is that perhaps why the Mandate pretend she was never brought back from the Ark?

Also, it is clearly premeditated that she would deliver him to the Consult, by not allowing him to be burned, so there must be more than just vengeance toward Aulisi and Nau.  Perhaps the Consult offered her shelter from the damnation that would surely come from exacting such vengeance.

[crackpot]Lastly, possibly purely coincidental, but Aulisi's name is nearly an anagram of Aisralu from Four Revelations.  Interestingly enough, changing a U to an I.  Possibly a connection that Aulisi is part non-Man?  Is this why Iëva seems to angrily put "like a Nonman!" into her admonishment of Nau?[/crackpot]

Sound off and let me know how far off I am.

I always took the line, after reading the first few books, that Kellhus was really a savior, but subsequent readings and Scott's own comments have made me doubt that.  He has said multiple times that the Dûnyain are the illusion of our modern method of thought.

The idea that the world could be mastered, especially Earwa, is flawed.  While Moë wants Kellhus to believe that nothing violates the principle of before and after, we actually know that this is false, a la the White-Luck Warrior.  Or at least, so we are led  to believe.

In the end we are fed some pretty contradictory stuff and really none of our "sources" seem very reliable.  I think this is Bakker's point though, which is echoed in his blog posts about "winning the magic-belief lottery," that everyone seems to know exactly what is going on, but in reality they are all probably just seeing things as they want to.

I've always had a sense that what we are in for a big reversal in the end, that where the text seems to be leading us is not the path that will actually be the "true" one.  Or maybe his point, that there won't be a "true" path...

Well, that's a lot of rambling, I don't know that I've made any real point though...

That's a great point.  It could be Aurax/Aurang that is the Dunyain.  I would almost like that better, in a way.  As if, unable to destroy them, they roped their (No) God to their own purpose.  We may see Kellhus do that as well.

The only issue I see, then, is why the first apocalypse?  If the Gods will be roped by Kellhus, no need to draw them out.  If their goal is to reduce the souls to 144,000, how does that fit?  Is that the limit of sure control of the Dunyain?  12 x 12,000 disciples?  One Dunyain per world?  Possibly.  Kellhus already commands more than that, though.

Well, the number 144,000 is essentially arbitrary, in the sense that that is just the number.  Why do they get the results they want at that (really any) number?  I think it is connected to how the Inside informs the Outside.  I think that at that "low" level of souls, judgement isn't collected enough to effect a soul's journey through the Outside.  Alternatively, perhaps they have something that can effect the Outside, yet can only exert a certain amount of influence.  144,000 souls worth of "force" would then be the amount this thing can "exert."

Also, why would the No-God/Aurax initiate the Ishual prerogative before the control of the world is complete?  There had to be a reason to initiate Ishual.  The culling of the world's souls couldn't be the reason?...Could it?  Maybe this is the way they prevent the disaster of the first apocalypse, by setting in motion their destiny, knowing that Kellhus would bring them the world.  Hence the No-God reaching out to Kellhus on the circumfix.  Maybe.

Well, I'm still not sold on the No-God actually having agency.  I've said since they earliest days that it is my feeling that the No-God is not some "master-mind" or even any sort of actual leader.  I believe that the No-God is just another thing of the Tekné, just like Sranc or Bashrag.  If that really was the No-God speaking to Kellhus, I think it's because like a pool of water, constantly seeking a way to "reach out" since it is trapped Outside.  I think in the moments where Kellhus heard the No-God, it was because his soul was open.  Like (I think it was) Akka had said, each soul is like a pin-prick though to the Outside.  I think in those moments his soul yawned and so was open to influence.  Or perhaps not.

But why the desperate questioning of "Who are the Dunyain?"  Those glimpses bother me more than anything else.  Unless only the No-God is aware of the Dunyain.  The Consult acting antagonist to set up the Kellhus/Celmomas circumstance I can understand, but the questioning by the Inchoroi in the north doesn't fit the narrative very well.

That was why I assumed it was the No-God that was Dunyain.  The Inchoroi are ignorant tools, the extensions of their belief, bound to destroy as many souls as possible as long as it serves the No-God's end.  Don't read into what their beliefs are, only what goal their beliefs achieve.  Think Shimeh vs. Moenghus.

I still can't buy that the Dûnyain were somehow made by the Consult.  I think that the opposite is more probable, that Seswatha created the order.  How would they have known of them?  Perhaps I am misunderstanding your contention, but it seems perfectly plausible that they would be ignorant to the Dûnyain.

H-What if Mimara finds no mark on Kellhus' soul?  What if the marking of one's soul requires belief, and a lack of belief means a lack of a soul?  That is something the God's can't abide and why the Celmomas' circumstance failed to draw the gods the first time.  An upside down soul, crafted himself....

That I am not sure on.  I don't think that Kellhus lacks a soul.  I think perhaps Kellhus' soul is special somehow, perhaps upside-down as well, or perhaps something else.

I'm not trying to shoot you down mind  you, I'm just throwing my own ideas out there too.

Maybe it's just in my mind, or my paradigm, but in god-hood wouldn't I be transcendent?

It seems like in that state, why should I care about anything?  I would be everything and nothing at once.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to give it up such a state, since I am all powerful, if something somehow displeased me, it would simply not be.  In other words, nothing could possibly displease me.

Naturally though, I am transcendent, so pleasure wouldn't even exist, so that is a rather silly thought in retrospect.

Well, like Inrithism is syncretic (I can recall Scott saying this before), I think the Tusk is too.  I think the Inchoroi used what "religion" they could find to craft something to their own ends.

That being said, we don't know how the gods work, as in, are they informed by the Inside? Or is the Inside informed by the Outside?  My guess is that there is some kind of bi-directionality though.

Apologies if this thread is a double, but I didn't turn up any results in a search.

Who is your favorite character and why?

I'll start; initially I was a big Kellhus fan, until (I think) the point at which we met the No-God.  At that point, I realized that we were probably being set up and I soured on Kellhus.

At about the same point that we learned about the Consult, my favorite character became Aurang.  He is a flat out terrible thing, yet his audacity is so great, I can't help but like him.  Plus, he's got some incredibly bad ass nick-names too.

That does seem plausible, but what does the scene allude to?  "The black shaft jutting from their hearts," an allusion to the smoke from the ruined Mansion?  Perhaps a forecast of the doom at Pir-Pahal?