The Second Apocalypse
Miscellaneous Chatter => General Misc. => Topic started by: MSJ on February 20, 2018, 04:49:42 pm
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This convo started in the Olympics thread and Wilshire suggested we should probably make a thread of its own, as to not make Dora Vee change into a Ciphrang and shut down the forum. (Kidding, I feel you ire Dora Vee)
Wilshire and I had some convo about this, along with Tleilaxu, and if anyone would like to jump in and offer thoughts, please do.
From the Oxford dictionary: An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
That's what I think excludes eSports, from being a real sport. Sure we can attach sport onto the end of anything for commercial reasons. That's the reason its being done in video games, to attract more people. But, for all the skill (mental, hand-eye coordination), you are missing the physical exertion which makes a sport, a sport. Trust me, I know it takes plenty of skill. I played Madden from the time it came out til about the 2005 version, and I was very, very good. I have nephews that would beat me today with their eyes closed. So, I'm not questioning that one bit.
I also linked a story from ESPN where a Curling athlete from Russia tested positive for PED's. I did this because Wilshire used Curling as a comparable sport to eSports. I don't believe there have been any PED controversies in any eSports competitions.
So, just a place to nicely discuss what constitutes a sport and what does not.
Oh, one last thought. I do see a future where kids have whole rooms that act as a virtual world, and that is how you play the game. Actually running, ducking, jumping and so forth. I've always thought ill see it before I die. If it does come to that, then I would consider that a sport. There would be tons of physical exertion in such a thing. Alas, we are not there yet, but probably very close.
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To be honest MSJ, I think you should try playing an esport yourself before judging, or at least reading about it or watching it. It's faaar from "shooting nazis and zombies while eating Doritos " like you said in the last thread, and is more mentally challenging than most physical sports ( SC2 at least is, since it's not a team game) .
ETA: Oh and Madden is not really an esport. I think you took the word "esport" a bit too literal there. I suggest trying Starcraft 2 , it's free and only needs a PC that is younger than 10 years old.
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To be honest MSJ, I think you should try playing an esport yourself before judging, or at least reading about it or watching it. It's faaar from "shooting nazis and zombies while eating Doritos " like you said in the last thread, and is more mentally challenging than most physical sports ( SC2 at least is, since it's not a team game) .
ETA: Oh and Madden is not really an esport. I think you took the word "esport" a bit too literal there. I suggest trying Starcraft 2 , it's free and only needs a PC that is younger than 10 years old.
I really have zero interests, nor time for video games. Well, I guess I could, but I'd rather be more productive and spend time with my kids.
I apologized in the Olympics thread. I do not think it's a sport, I do agree that it takes tons of mental skill and hand eye coordination. Its just missing the physical exertion. I explained this in my opening post also.
Look, I have an 8, 6 and 2 year old children, it won't be long and I will pony up for a gaming system. As long as it does not effect their health, social skills and school, I will have no problem with it.
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Look, I have an 8, 6 and 2 year old children, it won't be long and I will pony up for a gaming system. As long as it does not effect their health, social skills and school, I will have no problem with it.
Don't do it man, its downhill once you give in...
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If I had kids I'd be proud if they became good at SC2 or counter strike. Probably the most quintessential e-sports right there.
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This is one of the oldest debates on another forum i frequent, 15 years and counting. The battle lines have moved barely an inch in the last 15 years and the eternal war continues apace to this day. Having managed to get myself out of that debate i'm going to stay out of this one. I will read it though as perhaps a new point will appear that will help solve the result on the other board :D
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Anything that doesn't involve a object to be thrown, a team, a way to score points, and physical activity isn't a sport.
So esports aren't sports.
Neither is any board game (like chess, go, etc.).
Exercising isn't a sport: running, cycling, swimming. Its exercise.
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]Exercising isn't a sport: running, cycling, swimming. Its exercise.
Excercising isn't a sport, agreed. I don't agree on the others. They have systems for scoring and are individual and team sports. Physical exertion is not in question on any of them.
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If I had kids I'd be proud if they became good at SC2 or counter strike. Probably the most quintessential e-sports right there.
Sir, you're missing my point entirely. If one of my kids was able to compete in the eSports championship, I would be proud also. As long as it doesn't effect other area's of his/her life negatively.
Maybe I worded my original post on this subject very poorly, my bad. I have nothing against gamers. Just besides the few who take it seriously, most don't. And, its just a way to be lazy and burn time. When they could be making themselves better people in a number of different ways, excluding sports. I will agree the players I've seen in those type of tournaments are not obese, and I think most probably have a higher than average IQ. But, they are anomalies, not the norm.
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If I had kids I'd be proud if they became good at SC2 or counter strike. Probably the most quintessential e-sports right there.
Sir, you're missing my point entirely. If one of my kids was able to compete in the eSports championship, I would be proud also. As long as it doesn't effect other area's of his/her life negatively.
Maybe I worded my original post on this subject very poorly, my bad. I have nothing against gamers. Just besides the few who take it seriously, most don't. And, its just a way to be lazy and burn time. When they could be making themselves better people in a number of different ways, excluding sports. I will agree the players I've seen in those type of tournaments are not obese, and I think most probably have a higher than average IQ. But, they are anomalies, not the norm.
Did you just say gaming is a way to be lazy to burn time and that most gamers are obese and have a low IQ?
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Man, I thought I just addressed my not well thought out post in the post you just quoted.....
I've been looking at IQ and gamers and just the little bit I've read, there seems to be no correlation at all.
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]Exercising isn't a sport: running, cycling, swimming. Its exercise.
Excercising isn't a sport, agreed. I don't agree on the others. They have systems for scoring and are individual and team sports. Physical exertion is not in question on any of them.
I don't agree, obviously. Nothing sporting about exercising. Same as an eSport.
If I had kids I'd be proud if they became good at SC2 or counter strike. Probably the most quintessential e-sports right there.
Sir, you're missing my point entirely. If one of my kids was able to compete in the eSports championship, I would be proud also. As long as it doesn't effect other area's of his/her life negatively.
Can be said for anything though. You seem to really want to make a blanket statement about video games (and I might actually agree). However, no one is saying video games are going to make you fit, and I thought we were talking about esports...
But exercise anorexia is a thing - several people in my family have it. A kind of body dismorphia where people don't eat enough and feel like they are fat so they exercise an extreme amount. Its sad, it ruins their bodies, and leads to lifelong problems which can lead to death. One might look at that and say exercising leads to body dismorphia - at least I never met a gamer who thought they were physically fit when they weren't.
Most everyone that I know who spends a lot of time exercising ... I don't like. They tend to be the worst kind of people who only do one thing - I call them gym rats. They can't do, or say, anything other than exercise and talk about sports.
I don't personally know anyone who has ruined their life playing video games. Even if you do, video games is a symptom, not a cause. Someone who is lazy, unmotivated, and has an addictive personality, will find ways to ruin their life - with or without video games. Conversely, its entirely possible to be both an avid video game player and perfectly healthy.
But, MSJ, you specifically seem to have difficulty wrapping your head around the idea that playing video games, and international esports competitors, are not the same thing. Maybe intellectually you do, but the discussions that keep arising speak to an underlying confusion that hasn't yet been rectified, and I fear there's nothing that can bridge the gap. Its like trying to describe "why not" to someone who thinks they can play in the NBA because they do pickup games on the weekends with their friends.
I suspect, MSJ, that you don't know what is normative for a typical 'video game player'. Again though, if we're talking about a typical video game player and not esports, we can talk about a typical "i go to the gym" person. I see more overweight, unathletic people at the gym than I do at the supermarket. Do I then conclude that working out, and being at the gym, makes people obese and dumb?
Tleilaxu, you clearly have an axe to grind. Please read more carefully before you make responses, it makes the conversations easier to have. So do multi-sentence posts.
ETA: Sorry MSJ, not trying to hound you. Doesn't seem like a lot of participation so I'm chiming in.
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Most world class athletes (especially women) aren't "healthy". << just a random aside that popped into my heads for reasons i can longer remember.
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Tleilaxu, you clearly have an axe to grind. Please read more carefully before you make responses, it makes the conversations easier to have. So do multi-sentence posts.
ETA: Sorry MSJ, not trying to hound you. Doesn't seem like a lot of participation so I'm chiming in.
And, its just a way to be lazy and burn time. When they could be making themselves better people in a number of different ways, excluding sports.
-> gaming is a way to be lazy and burn time as opposed to making yourself a better person.
I will agree the players I've seen in those type of tournaments are not obese, and I think most probably have a higher than average IQ. But, they are anomalies, not the norm.
If non-obese players with higher than average IQs are anomalies then the norm must be the opposite.
I don't have any axe to grind, I just found the post funny. If I were truly angry I wouldn't be able to hide it. Truth is I don't really care that much, but everytime MSJ says e-sports is not a sport I want to insist that it is.
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Teenagers being "bums" is an age old problem/issue/complaint - seems once you're in a position to take care of your children, not relying on them to produce for the family, you risk them atrophying. There are letters/texts from the 18th and 19th centuries America of Senators and the like complaining their kids party all the time. I believe ( but cannot source it ) same from Romans and Greeks few thousand years ago.
I'm torn because my oldest son simply plays too much on his computer ( League of Legends, et al ), but I also have him quite active in Scouts and LaCrosse and he's developed the habit of doing his homework before doing anything else - so on the one hand, I don't want to be up his ass about his every spare minute, but on the other I wished he did SOMETHING other than computer shit with his spare time. I'm working on Friday nights being board game night, but it's not taking with him, he "puts up" with it. Tried movie night, which works some if popcorn is involved.
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Teenagers being "bums" is an age old problem/issue/complaint - seems once you're in a position to take care of your children, not relying on them to produce for the family, you risk them atrophying. There are letters/texts from the 18th and 19th centuries America of Senators and the like complaining their kids party all the time. I believe ( but cannot source it ) same from Romans and Greeks few thousand years ago.
I'm torn because my oldest son simply plays too much on his computer ( League of Legends, et al ), but I also have him quite active in Scouts and LaCrosse and he's developed the habit of doing his homework before doing anything else - so on the one hand, I don't want to be up his ass about his every spare minute, but on the other I wished he did SOMETHING other than computer shit with his spare time. I'm working on Friday nights being board game night, but it's not taking with him, he "puts up" with it. Tried movie night, which works some if popcorn is involved.
There's a simple solution to that. Ask him what league he is; if he's in a low league tell him he's too much of a n00b to play and that he should do something else, otherwise let him play.
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Teenagers being "bums" is an age old problem/issue/complaint - seems once you're in a position to take care of your children, not relying on them to produce for the family, you risk them atrophying. There are letters/texts from the 18th and 19th centuries America of Senators and the like complaining their kids party all the time. I believe ( but cannot source it ) same from Romans and Greeks few thousand years ago.
I'm torn because my oldest son simply plays too much on his computer ( League of Legends, et al ), but I also have him quite active in Scouts and LaCrosse and he's developed the habit of doing his homework before doing anything else - so on the one hand, I don't want to be up his ass about his every spare minute, but on the other I wished he did SOMETHING other than computer shit with his spare time. I'm working on Friday nights being board game night, but it's not taking with him, he "puts up" with it. Tried movie night, which works some if popcorn is involved.
There's a simple solution to that. Ask him what league he is; if he's in a low league tell him he's too much of a n00b to play and that he should do something else, otherwise let him play.
Hey says he's in Bronze ( not sure if that's good or not )
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Wilshire, and whoever else ignoring my words. I apologized not once, but twice, that my initial post regarding gamers was not well worded and thought out. I don't know how many times I can apologize and clarify myself until I am understood.
It very hypocritical for you to say that (because of my initial post, again) because I said people who play video games are more likely to be obese, that all people who work out are gym rats and only speak of sports and the like. I workout, at home. But, ask yourself, is that all I speak of? Hardly. Is like to think imopen to any and all conversations where I have a inkling of expertise or thoughts on the matter. Hell, I took over 4 years for me to open a NFL/sports thread and talk to people on here with similar likes.
And I do get the difference between a professional gamer and someone who just plays games as fun. I realize not all are obese and I tried clarifying that. I just know that it can lead to that.
Look, I get the feeling you guys think I'm an overbearing sports father, in not. I also explained that. I do want and actively try to get my kids active, for all the obvious reasons. Physical and mental health and the enjoyment of being outside. I am a sports junkie myself and always have been. But, I could care less if any of my kids play sports at all. I just want them active and involved in something. Not setting around the house doing nothing. If my kids chose to read, I would be very happy with that (my daughter is an avid reader). If one of my sons wanted to learn an instrument or dance or whatever, I would fully support them. I just don except laziness and doing nothing. That's where I feel that video games could lead to. And that would be a problem with me. Sorry, those are my values, instilled in my since I was a child.
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I just don except laziness and doing nothing. That's where I feel that video games could lead to. And that would be a problem with me. Sorry, those are my values, instilled in my since I was a child.
Laziness that isn't a symptom of other problems has been a thing long before video games. With people like that, if it's not one thing, it's another.
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Teenagers being "bums" is an age old problem/issue/complaint - seems once you're in a position to take care of your children, not relying on them to produce for the family, you risk them atrophying. There are letters/texts from the 18th and 19th centuries America of Senators and the like complaining their kids party all the time. I believe ( but cannot source it ) same from Romans and Greeks few thousand years ago.
I'm torn because my oldest son simply plays too much on his computer ( League of Legends, et al ), but I also have him quite active in Scouts and LaCrosse and he's developed the habit of doing his homework before doing anything else - so on the one hand, I don't want to be up his ass about his every spare minute, but on the other I wished he did SOMETHING other than computer shit with his spare time. I'm working on Friday nights being board game night, but it's not taking with him, he "puts up" with it. Tried movie night, which works some if popcorn is involved.
There's a simple solution to that. Ask him what league he is; if he's in a low league tell him he's too much of a n00b to play and that he should do something else, otherwise let him play.
Hey says he's in Bronze ( not sure if that's good or not )
Bronze is the lowest league.
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Laziness that isn't a symptom of other problems has been a thing long before video games. With people like that, if it's not one thing, it's another.
I agree. But, I remember when growing up. Friends who was always outside playing, swimming, fishing and so on. Then the video games started coming out. First Nintendo, then Playstation and a few of my friends did nothing but play those games. And, I'm sure if everyone hear is honest with themselves they've seen the same in their life too. To some its an addiction.
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Truth is I don't really care that much, but everytime MSJ says e-sports is not a sport I want to insist that it is.
Call it whatever you like, that doesn't matter. Still not a sport.
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I just don except laziness and doing nothing. That's where I feel that video games could lead to. And that would be a problem with me. Sorry, those are my values, instilled in my since I was a child.
Laziness that isn't a symptom of other problems has been a thing long before video games. With people like that, if it's not one thing, it's another.
Exactly DV. This sentiment was buried in one of my posts.
Blaming video games for laziness, obesity, etc., is just comically misguided.
Laziness that isn't a symptom of other problems has been a thing long before video games. With people like that, if it's not one thing, it's another.
I agree. But, I remember when growing up. Friends who was always outside playing, swimming, fishing and so on. Then the video games started coming out. First Nintendo, then Playstation and a few of my friends did nothing but play those games. And, I'm sure if everyone hear is honest with themselves they've seen the same in their life too. To some its an addiction.
Can't help from laughing. I guarantee I was one of those kids you're talking about. I never went outside once we got video game systems. But even before then, I'd rather sit in my room and build shit with legos, etc., than go outside and play with friends. Some kids just aren't interested in that
All those 'sports' kids who couldn't count their own fingers and toes, getting degrees in stupid majors so that they could sports super hard for a few more years before joining the real world and realizing they had no life skills because all they did was play sports.
I'm not sure why anyone fights so hard to make sure a video game aren't called sports. They are both equally abused and equally worthless for a person development. Neither has anything to do bettering the player when done improperly, and they are both equally useful if done correctly (which is seldom anyway so why bother bringing it up).
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Can't help from laughing. I guarantee I was one of those kids you're talking about. I never went outside once we got video game systems. But even before then, I'd rather sit in my room and build shit with legos, etc., than go outside and play with friends. Some kids just aren't interested in that - and I still managed to be a collegiate athlete on scholarship at a D1 school.
And you know who else was there? All those 'sports' kids who couldn't count their own fingers and toes, getting degrees in stupid majors so that they could sports super hard for a few more years before joining the real world and realizing they had no life skills because all they did was play sports.
1. I created this thread because you suggested it and unwanted to see if anyone could reasonably explain (commercial reasons aside) why you'd think a video game as a sport? Not one of you have answered that. What you have done is made this very personal.
2. Wilshire, I guess ill say you just never know someone. Because your comments in this thread are so not the Wilshire I have grown to enjoy and would think established a friendship of sorts.
You're making some of the rudest, judgmental statements I've ever seen. Athletes who cant count their toes? As if all athletes are dumbasses? You were an athlete and in can tell your not. I as and carried a 3.75 GOA through H.S. and no in wasnt skating through. I took all AP courses. This thing you have that athletes are just dumb jocks, is the same as all smart people are socially awkward dorks. Its not true in any sense.
Yes, some athletes could give two shits about earning a real degree to be ready for life. But, many, many of them use it as a way to be prepared for the real world. You have a hate for athletes that shows through rather easily in your posts and its so unlike you. I find it confounding.
I have said 3 times and will say it again the my original post wasn't well thought out. Not a gamers are obese, but it does become of factor in obesity. Same as setting around watching tv, as Tleilaxu pointed out. Ill say it again, sorry for not thinking it through.
But, the reason for the post, for one of you gamer gods to explain to me how you could consider setting on your ads, twiddling your thumbs a sport. Not, one of you have or even tried.
So, I'm therefore done with the conversation, which has turned into a hate bashing session on athletes. As if the are the bane of the world. The do more good than many people would ever imagine (pro athletes). Athletics is a way to prepare children for certain aspects of life. Bit, not sports alone and I would never suggest that. I've even said that if none of my kids played sport a that would be ok. They would just need to be involved in something. Its a rule in my household. To be proactive.
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They are both equally abused and equally worthless for a person development. Neither has anything to do bettering the player when done improperly.
I call bullshit to the tenth degree. Sports teach a lot of life lessons. How to work with other people. How to take orders and be part of a team. It teaxhes us the ups and downs of life. Winning and losing. If youndont see that, you just don't want too.
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You're making some of the rudest, judgmental statements I've ever seen. Athletes who cant count their toes?...
...But, the reason for the post, for one of you gamer gods to explain to me how you could consider setting on your ads, twiddling your thumbs a sport. Not, one of you have or even tried.
m8
Also, if curling is a sport, so is e-sports. That's just objective fact.
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This is one of the oldest debates on another forum i frequent, 15 years and counting. The battle lines have moved barely an inch in the last 15 years and the eternal war continues apace to this day. Having managed to get myself out of that debate i'm going to stay out of this one. I will read it though as perhaps a new point will appear that will help solve the result on the other board :D
I see this debate polarises on this board as much as it did on the previous board.
The other two big arguments on the board is what do you call this (https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/sites/default/files/user-recipe/img_0069_4.jpg)
and what happens when you divide by zero.
The food name one is the most hotly contested one, but all of them end up with folk getting suspensions for 3 days when the argument kicks off again
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???
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As it turns out, overly general statements are overly general and anecdotes are anecdotal.
There is nothing wrong with playing sports. Unless you do so to such a degree that you fail to develop other life skills.
There is nothing wrong with playing video games. Unless you do so to such a degree that you fail to develop other life skills.
Let's try to deescalate here, no reason for such a "simple" topic to devolve into bickering.
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Plenty of people have answered the question: why is an esport a sport.
It is terribly simple: a sport is an imaginary competition people play. Video games are as real as any other sport.
Exercise is not a sport, therefore, the lack of exercise does not eliminate an activity from being a sport.
Nothing else to be said on topic. Off topic is what the rest of the thread has been: talking about child rearing, psyco-social development of children, etc. etc. Unfortunately, someone who hates something (ie video games) and loves something else (ie sports) can never see the benefit of the former and detriment of the latter.
As someone who has done both extensivel I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.
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Unfortunately, I still disagree with that definition of sport and that marking anything that is competitive as a sport is overtly broad so to make the term useless, but that is a personal opinion. Athletic sports (to me) is different that other types of competitive endeavors. Nothing makes one inherently better than the other, it's just different.
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I think that since no two people agree on what a sport is, the term is already useless.
So everyone just defines it the way they want to include the things they like, and exclude the things they don't. Nothing wrong with that I guess, but no one is talking about the same thing.
Internal consistence is key, imo. If you can't make a definition that satisfies your own ideas of what is and isn't a sport, I'm not sure anyone can help lol.
So since I find the term itself useless, defining it broadly gets it out of the way. Basically saying that everything is a sport, so we can stop with the false pretense that both parties knows what the other is referring too and actually just talk about the subject on hand. Very rarely is the definition of sport in question, almost always its people trying to talk about something else entirely. This just cuts to the quick.
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I think that since no two people agree on what a sport is, the term is already useless.
So everyone just defines it the way they want to include the things they like, and exclude the things they don't. Nothing wrong with that I guess, but no one is talking about the same thing.
But I like video games and I like athletic sports. Seeing them as different things isn't a value statement from me, rather one of distinction. Other's results may vary though.
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They are of course distinct, and physical activity is a pretty fair point of distinction.
I'm not applying a value to either title. But this conversation really isn't for us, its for those who find great value in the exclusivity of their claim.
At the end of the day, were talking about a definition to a word and it has no baring on real life. People get paid handsomely to play pretend. People dedicate their lives and livelihoods on their ability to excel at totally random skills - not just in competitive events but any career.
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As someone who has done both extensively (4-year collegiate varsity athlete, Division 1, scholarship, championship ring), I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.
I'm willing to listen and have been. And, I played video games into my mid-twenties. Then, had kids and didn't have time for that or rec sports I was playing. I see both sides. But, your reasoning for calling it a sport is just wrong. Just because you want it to be something, doesn't make it so. It might be a competition, yes. One that takes very skilled gamers to compete in, bit it is not a sport.
You're wrong when you say that I think it has no value, because it does. Develops hand-eye coordination and I'm sure memory skills.
I agree with H. I like both of them, as long as either one turns your life upside down. You don't think when I get my kids a PS5 or whatever that I won't be playi g on that bitch a ten at night? I will. I know I will.
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I said they are both equally valueless when done improperly.
They both can and do teach hand-eye-coordination, teamwork, adaptability, problem solving, people management, dealing with loss, dedication, hard work, work ethic, and a whole host of other things. The manifestation is different, the skills are the same.
In the 21st century, physical prowess is not high on my list of importance, and very low on my list for predictors of future success in today's world (not that I have a list).
Granted, having a good coach is great. Good adult role-models are vital for development, and you're not likely to find that playing video games. On the flip side, there's a lot of bad coaches out there, and can be more damaging than otherwise. A great coach can have a lifelong positive impact on a kids life, I know it has for me, but the reverse is true as well - I've known of male coaches getting into ... lets say trouble ... with their female athletes.
Its all a toss up. Sports are not some gold standard and can cause as much, or more, harm than a video game.
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I agree Wilshire, wholeheartedly with that post. Tthats what inwas getting at. Look, this has run its course and I have no need to battle over it. Positives and negatives to both. The fact remains as parents we have to see whether video games and sports are affecting our children negatively or positively. That's the crutch.
ETA: e Sports ARE STILL NOT FUCKING SPORTS!!!!!! AND I WILL NEVER WAIVER! ;)
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I agree Wilshire, wholeheartedly with that post. Tthats what inwas getting at. Look, this has run its course and I have no need to battle over it. Positives and negatives to both. The fact remains as parents we have to see whether video games and sports are affecting our children negatively or positively. That's the crutch.
ETA: e Sports ARE STILL NOT FUCKING SPORTS!!!!!! AND I WILL NEVER WAIVER! ;)
Agreed. Esports are much smarter than sports, it's a shame mentioning the two in the same line :P
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As someone who has done both extensively (4-year collegiate varsity athlete, Division 1, scholarship, championship ring), I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.
I'm willing to listen and have been. And, I played video games into my mid-twenties. Then, had kids and didn't have time for that or rec sports I was playing. I see both sides. But, your reasoning for calling it a sport is just wrong. Just because you want it to be something, doesn't make it so. It might be a competition, yes. One that takes very skilled gamers to compete in, bit it is not a sport.
You're wrong when you say that I think it has no value, because it does. Develops hand-eye coordination and I'm sure memory skills.
I agree with H. I like both of them, as long as either one turns your life upside down. You don't think when I get my kids a PS5 or whatever that I won't be playi g on that bitch a ten at night? I will. I know I will.
Ok serious reply this time. Playing a single player game on a PlayStation or Madden with friends doesn't really count as an "esport".
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I agree Wilshire, wholeheartedly with that post. Tthats what inwas getting at. Look, this has run its course and I have no need to battle over it. Positives and negatives to both. The fact remains as parents we have to see whether video games and sports are affecting our children negatively or positively. That's the crutch.
ETA: e Sports ARE STILL NOT FUCKING SPORTS!!!!!! AND I WILL NEVER WAIVER! ;)
It's funny how you keep ignoring our comparisons with curling, dart etc.
I think you just need to face the fact that e-sports ARE sports. This is 100% objective.
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This is 100% objective.
The true mark of Objectivity: when it needs to be labeled such. :)
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This is 100% objective.
The true mark of Objectivity: when it needs to be labeled such. :)
Its troublesome that self-evident is subjective, but is the marker for objectivity. Paradoxes, anyone who drops out of the conversation at this point is confirmed skin spy.
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Tleilaxu, lol, you only follow the part of the conversation you want to. There was a Russian Curler that just got caught doping. Any gamers out there using PED's? Nah, didn't think so. Darts is a questionable thing. But, by the definition of sports, eSports is I no way co.parable to that definition. Curling is. I've went over this already. Look, if it makes you think your an athlete to play BattleStar Galtica 3000, then good for you. But, you and very other gamer in the world is not an Athlete. You know it, i know it. You just can't admit that, because its one of your hobbies.
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Tleilaxu, lol, you only follow the part of the conversation you want to. There was a Russian Curler that just got caught doping. Any gamers out there using PED's? Nah, didn't think so. Darts is a questionable thing. But, by the definition of sports, eSports is I no way co.parable to that definition. Curling is. I've went over this already. Look, if it makes you think your an athlete to play BattleStar Galtica 3000, then good for you. But, you and very other gamer in the world is not an Athlete. You know it, i know it. You just can't admit that, because its one of your hobbies.
He got caught doping and the rest of the doping community was dumbfounded because, as they admitted, curling is not a physically taxing sport, it relies on fine motor skills, just like e-sports, which are indeed sports.
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Plenty of people have answered the question: why is an esport a sport.
It is terribly simple: a sport is an imaginary competition people play. Video games are as real as any other sport.
Exercise is not a sport, therefore, the lack of exercise does not eliminate an activity from being a sport.
Nothing else to be said on topic. Off topic is what the rest of the thread has been: talking about child rearing, psyco-social development of children, etc. etc. Unfortunately, someone who hates something (ie video games) and loves something else (ie sports) can never see the benefit of the former and detriment of the latter.
As someone who has done both extensively (4-year collegiate varsity athlete, Division 1, scholarship, championship ring), I feel I have a unique perspective worth considering. Obviously, not everyone here feels that way. However, those who are polarized to one side because they have little to no experience with the other, should probably talk less and listen more. Otherwise, we might as well have an angry atheist and a righteous religious leader try to tell each-other that god does/doesn't exist, for all the good it will do.
Valid points. However I did warn that no good could come of this "debate". For some reason folk just seem to draw red lines when discussing it.
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All in good fun. :)
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Any gamers out there using PED's? Nah, didn't think so.
That really isn't true, even though this is an aside. Gamers absolutely do use drugs to increase their performance. How widespread is it? I have no idea.
I've played a competitive card game for many years and I have personally known people to take something like ritalin or adderall before a tournament to try to "get an edge." It does happen, even if it might not happen as often as it would in an athletic sport.
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Gamers use adah medicine all the time, was actually a scandal about it.
Adderall pills. Performance-enhancing drugs are a staple of the sports world. ... But PEDs are bleeding into the world of eSports, where professional video game players need to be at the top of their cognitive game.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-adderall-is-used-in-esports-2015-7?r=US&IR=T
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Those are just speeders.....norhingbdifferent different than a graduate student using to stay awake all night.
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Those are just speeders.....norhingbdifferent different than a graduate student using to stay awake all night.
It's performance enhancing.
My secret specialist subject is doping in Sports(I'm an old cycling fan and we know how the pudding is made) . Testosterone occurs naturally in the body but take extraneous amounts and you give yourself a huge advantage. Or Salbutamol which is just an asthma medicine but can be used to dope as well, in fact the current greatest cyclist in the word chris froome has an adverse finding for that very thing. It's in the process of administration.
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Watching a superb example of the backfire effect taking place right here. Doesn't matter how much evidence you give someone - if they are hell bent on believing something else, evidence to the contrary makes them double down.
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I've already said I don't care what you call it. Its still not a sport? Is 21 year olds studying for exams engaging in a sport becauae the use speeders? Speeders are truly not a PED. Its a drug that makes you stay up all night wether you want to or not.
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It's performance enhancing.
For some, no doubt. Others not so much. It puts the to sleep.
I get why a gamer would use them, but it doesn't change the fact it isn't a sport. Frankly we're at a impasse. I'm not gonna budge that playing video games is a sport, its not by the very definition of the word. I've already said you can call it whatever you want and it doesn't make it true. Its for advertising purposes, purely.
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I'm not arguing about sport though. I'm staying clear of that. I'm just saying "e-sports" competitors take substances to improve their performance.
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I'm not arguing about sport though. I'm staying clear of that. I'm just saying "e-sports" competitors take substances to improve their performance.
I won't disagree. Ive taking them before when I don't get much sleep during the day and have to work a 12 hour night shift. Then I can't sleep the next day. Wife has a script of Vyvanse which is essentially the same thing. Nasty drug I say. But, yes, it does make you focus and I totally see why gamers would use them. Along with grad students, overworked people, etc, etc. I stay away from them because no matter how tired I feel I cannot sleep on them.
ETA: thing is, when I have taken them I get quite jittery. I could see that having an adverse effect on gaming. But, I'm sure thats tolerance and varies person to person.
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@March, you into Cycling? Ever competed or just enjoy the sport?
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Just watching it. I'm not much of a competitor.
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by the very definition of the word
Everyone has their own definition, or cherry picks a definition they find somewhere to fit their own definition, so this is an irrelevant argument. If we all agreed on a definition, there wouldn't be a debate lol.
Sport (British English) or sports (American English) includes all forms of competitive physical activity or games which,[1] through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing enjoyment to participants, and in some cases, entertainment for spectators.[2] - Wikipedia page for Sports
[1]"Definition of sport". SportAccord International Sports Federation. Archived from the original on 28 October 2011.
[2]Council of Europe. "The Europien sport charter". Retrieved 5 March 2012.
Unfortunately there's no substantiation for what 'physical' is, or 'skill', which imo doesn't disqualify video games. And that's the trouble of 'by definition': definitions need further definitions to make sense - otherwise we're just using our own bias to reafirm our own biases.
You cited merrian-webster dictionary.
This cites two international sports authorities.
I'm not saying either is wrong or right, I'm saying its easy to find a definition that exactly matches what one is arguing, which again makes it irrelevant.