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Messages - sciborg2

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General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: May 19, 2023, 06:16:51 pm »
"Touched by a masterpiece, a person begins to hear in himself that same call for truth that prompted the artist to the creative act"

Andrey Tarkovsky. Sculpting in Time.

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: February 16, 2023, 06:33:55 pm »
 "Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of (original) sin."
   -J V Neumann

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: February 15, 2023, 07:45:08 pm »

“How it is that anything so remarkable as a state of consciousness comes about as a result of irritating nervous tissue, is just as unaccountable as the appearance of the djinn when Aladdin rubbed his lamp in the story.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: February 07, 2022, 08:41:03 pm »
“...there is a certain place in any discussion of any one thing in existence where knowledge ends and the Great Vacuum extends on out into infinity.”
 -Ray Bradbury

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: December 30, 2021, 06:13:19 pm »
'The idea of ... empathy is an intellectual interpretation of the primary experience in which there is no room for any sort of dichotomy.'
 - Daisetsu T. Suzuki

"The way we see the world shapes the way we treat it. If a mountain is a deity, not a pile of ore; if a river is one of the veins of the land, not potential irrigation water; if a forest is a sacred grove, not timber; if other species are biological kin, not resources; or if the planet is our mother, not an opportunity -- then we will treat each other with greater respect. Thus is the challenge, to look at the world from a different perspective."

~ D Suzuki

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: November 12, 2021, 07:51:28 am »
"Let them not be another's servant, who can be their own masters"

"For heaven is man, and man is heaven, and all men are one heaven, and heaven 
only one man."
 – Paracelsus

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: November 09, 2021, 01:43:14 am »
‘Man is a stream whose source is hidden. Always our being is descending into us from we know not whence.’
 -Ralph Waldo Emerson

“we are continually overflowing toward those who preceded us, toward our origin, and toward those who seemingly come after us. ... It is our task to imprint this temporary, perishable earth into ourselves so deeply, so painfully and passionately, that its essence can rise again “invisibly,” inside us. We are the bees of the invisible. We wildly collect the honey of the visible, to store it in the great golden hive of the invisible.”

―Rainer Maria Rilke

"Paradoxically, the ability to be alone is the condition for the ability to love."
 -Erich Fromm, The Art of Loving

"Knowing how to be solitary is central to the art of loving."
  -bell hooks

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: September 24, 2021, 09:22:06 pm »
“Only the pure soul can truthfully live in this tension: to know about the possible ruin and still remain tirelessly active for all that is possible in the world.”
 -Karl Jaspers


"As properly unconditional, the subject is a free being. It is truly present as the self-conscious Existenz which in action finds itself in its objectivity but cannot be derived from objective being, no more than that being can be derived from it."
 — Karl Jaspers

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: August 12, 2021, 08:37:21 pm »
Archaic Torso of Apollo

We cannot know his legendary head
with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso
is still suffused with brilliance from inside,
like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low,

gleams in all its power. Otherwise
the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could
a smile run through the placid hips and thighs
to that dark center where procreation flared.

Otherwise this stone would seem defaced
beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders
and would not glisten like a wild beast’s fur:

would not, from all the borders of itself,
burst like a star: for here there is no place
that does not see you. You must change your life.
— Rainer Maria Rilke

General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« on: July 04, 2021, 10:33:37 pm »
“What is the Absolute? Something that appears to us in fleeting experiences--say, through the gentle smile of a beautiful woman, or even through the warm caring smile of a person who may otherwise seem ugly and rude. In such miraculous but extremely fragile moments, another dimension transpires through our reality. As such, the Absolute is easily corroded;it slips all too easily through our fingers and must be handled as carefully as a butterfly”
― Slavoj Zizek, The Fragile Absolute: Or, Why Is the Christian Legacy Worth Fighting For?

I think probably "portion of god" and/or Third Sight seems something closer to Intellect than Soul. Why else would Moenghus shine so brightly. Also, this explains why Skin Spies wouldn't necessarily jump out in the Third Sight.

The Cish don't see souls, but something else entirely.

I was thinking about this again, going back to Bakker's D&D campaign...perhaps what the Cish see is the relative portion of stats?

Souls "shine" in the sense that great souls have great intellect/charisma/wisdom...possibly even physical stats are the usual manifestation of a great soul. And since this has always worked out, as far as the Cish can explore metaphysics (they don't seem to have any facility with the Daimos) they just see the skin-spies perfect machinery as bright souls?

The Unholy Consult / Re: Collapse of Object and Subject
« on: June 28, 2021, 11:09:09 pm »
We talked some more about this on the Discord - or rather I babbled to myself this weekend  :-[

There the whole lineage thing that combines human and Nonman blood, resulting in a "Two Hearted" ancestor of Kellhus.

From Knife of Many Hands there seems to be a parallel between two hearts and two personalities if not two souls.

This seems to relate to something the No-God requires to get started again, perhaps having two souls in one body creates some "flaw" or "singularity" that the Ark + NG can exploit to shut the world?

Another question is whether the Outside is made of "stuff" and can be manipulated in the same way the Inside has been manipulated using the reductonist principles of the Tekne.

RPG Discussion / Re: Occult Investigators in the Bakkerverse?
« on: June 28, 2021, 11:04:41 pm »
well i do have one RPG question - would you play it so (almost?) everyone is ultimately damned?
that would be rather interesting as the "Consult" equivalent turns out to be right. "Truth belongs to the Enemy"

Rich people would also have an interesting role, if we go by some curious lines from the TUC gloss

    “Temporal fortune,” we are assured, “is naught but the shadow of eternal damnation …” In his Annals, Casidas contends that Hintarates was what drove the powerful to incessant war, “to leap to Gilgaöl lest falling deeper still.” Later in the Annals, he writes that “contention is the greatest curse of our religion. If the powerful are not waging war to save their souls, their people are waging war against them for being damned,” a passage that has been, not surprisingly, redacted in a great many copies.

    Bakker, R. Scott. The Unholy Consult: The Aspect-Emperor: Book Four (The Aspect-Emperor Trilogy) . The Overlook Press. Kindle Edition.

Pacts could seemingly be made with the Hundred, as Kelmomas put it to shovel souls into the jaws of Hell.
Prolly what they were doing in the Bohemian Grove anyway ;)

I say "seemingly" b/c it isn't clear the Hundred have human-type intellects, though a DM could play it that way if they want.

RPG Discussion / Occult Investigators in the Bakkerverse?
« on: June 28, 2021, 08:52:24 pm »
Transporting some discussion about this from the Discord ->


Is anyone into the SCP Foundation universe?  If so, I’m trying to identify what portions of tSA that could be transferred over to the D&D 5e rule set in a believable manner.
This specific group of players I DM for played my patchwork version of tSA, but I think they would really like an adventure version where they are essentially SCP agents and all of the SCP’s they are called to investigate are out of the Bakkerverse

Shulgi the Innkeeper:

SCP is great
Used to read articles before, haven't checked it in more than a year though.
If you combine the technological anomalies, such as the ones made by Anderson Robotics or perhaps Prometheus Labs and use them as technology for the Consult, I think it will make a fun mixture. I doubt the lores are compatible in any way though, even the horror atmosphere is different.
Flesh that hates and Consult abomiantions could work together I guess


Regarding the RPG idea I think you can combine elements of Neuropath - use tech to fuck with people's brains in Seven-movie fashion w/ elements of the gods and Outside
The Hundred can be archetypes, hiding behind angels of the monotheisms and gods of the polytheisms.
The Hundred, are, arguably, akin to AIs
The Trickster seems like a friend, helping you navigate these horrors, but in truth seeks a way into the world could be a campaign.
Ciprhang - I assume 5e has the Tanar'ri, the demons of the Abyss
Those seem to be inspiration for the Ciphrang we get in the books.

5e Ultramodern - I think that's the title - prolly has enough modern rules for stuff like guns to help blend the fantasy and sci-fi elements.
You don't even need to read Neuropath, you can just ask yourself what happens when the worst people in the world - many of whom are in power - get access to tech that can fuck with brains....

Chorae would need to be toned down, tho Aporetics could be how Ciphrang are you scribble some Word of God onto bullets, blades, etc.
just use magical weapon rules, maybe with some "ignoring defensive magics"


The all/nothing nature of Bakker's magic is likely untenable for an rpg.

It works on the scale of armies, but for small groups it doesn't make sense. Either all encounters simply end with a handwaive, or the wizard does nothing.


it's pretty much like the real world - who lands the first hit, wins


Aporetics actually gives a reason for the sci-fi tech

The mechanic is already in the Modern / Urban-Fantasy rules for 5e
Ah you just tone down the efficacy of Aporetics
Like how you need a +1 magical weapon to hit most demons, elementals, etc
It give the opportunity, not victory outright


Brutal Rock, Paper, Scissors balance there.
I mean, it can work, you just better watch each other's asses.  But, yeah, maybe they were going for a real D2 Hardcore-style.  It does make for some real "stakes."  In a Heideggerian Being-Towards-Death way, I guess.


Yeah a lot of the Old School Renaissance stuff is pretty hardcore
But if the goal is Occult Investigation into Bakkerverse type horror
Seems like you need to either up the power of science and/or lower the power of magic


Permadeath is not something I have ever felt I had time for.


permadeath based on a die-roll especially is hard if you were 3/4ths of the way into an X-files style case


Closest I've come is Xcom2 where your soldiers can die. While great fun in its devastation, i don't have the hours to lose an entire game.


heh i was just thinking of how it could be done Xcom style


Yeah feeling the loss of a mistake that kills a character you've been grooming is nice in that way, as you kind of get the best of both..

You still keep playing the stakes are there to lend weight to decisions.


Plus the agency itself has more of a character. Sorta like Men in Black

You select agents for the job, possibly separate investigators from "SWAT" back up

So your "main guys" aren't dying every time


Sorcerer vs Sorcerer battles still get a back-and-forth, where wards get worn down and reinforced


that's assuming no one's blindsided, which is a pretty big assumption


they still have reflexive and incipient wards though

and it's hard to be blindsided due to the mark


Akka gets ambushed a number of times
Manages to live.


I would assume those can be overwhelmed with a precision strike, given time to aim/concentrate


Akka has warning Wards, it's why he wakes up in the library


and I mean blindsided in a skirmish, when too much stuff happens, and you can get attacked from any side at any point, while you yourself are attacking someone in the same way


Kellhus teleporting around and killing all the primaries.

Where were their skin wards lol.

Do you agree with Madness that perhaps Big Moe just let Kellhus yammer on about discrepancies in voices while in truth the Cish easily rooted out the skin-spies?

Well, even Kellhus temper's his conjecture there:

Then, about twelve years ago, you discovered the first of the Consult skin-spies—probably through discrepancies in their voices.

I don't think Kellhus really fully understands the Third Sight at this point (in fact, he might never really, since he couldn't ever experience it himself).

I think in line with what you are saying here is that what the Cish see has, to them, always correlated with souls. They perhaps see souls as entities with passions, intellect, etc. And before they never had reason to doubt this correlation.

Perhaps it's also the case that because they felt they could still see "souls" in the skin-spies they insisted that these were not biological machinery but magical artifacts made by the Scarlet Spires?

Well, I think that the Cishaurim leadership likely already had "reason" to suspect or be worried about the Scarlet Spires.  The only other group they'd likely suspect more would be the Imperial Saik and they likely had little reason to think they could pull off such a feat, simply because the Diamos is far more mysterious, in-world, as to what it might be able to do.  Being so beyond what the "usual" Anagogis could do, they are likely right in worrying about if it could well pull a soul from something.

In the end, I suspect this actually is a slight plot hole, but one easily hand-waved away.  It was the case that pre-"twelve years ago" the Consult rarely had reason to install skin-spies in Fanim lands, so there wasn't really much reason for concern by either party.  When Moe arrives though, his curiosity and general thoroughness means removal reaches a fever pitch, raising things to a new level for both the Cishaurim and the Consult.

I think since each of these tidbits are extra-textual it's easy enough to massage them into fitting the logic of the plot.

OTOH with a "metaphysical whodunnit" one does need some consistency to chart out the metaphysics...a few short stories would help standardize the canon in that regard...

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