The Second Apocalypse
Miscellaneous Chatter => Literature => Topic started by: What Came Before on May 15, 2013, 12:36:28 am
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Have anyone here read the malazan books by Steven Erikson?
Since I just love Bakkers books,im a bit curious about mr Erikson and his tales
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I made it to Midnight Tides and I was in love with the series... at some point, that love dwindled and I've not picked it back up - though I've read all his Korbal and Broach short stories. Even despite, some of my favorite fantasy characters ever appearing in the series.
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, jan :).
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It's a good series and a few years ago, I would have said, it is among the best series of epic fantasy.
But after I have read Midnight Tides, my interest in the books dwindled slightly. I have only read his books in german and after Midnight Tides it took a long time before the next book came out. I have never had the intention to read his books in english. I bought the next two ( Reaper's Gale was split in two books, like all of Erikson's books in my language ), but didn't read it.
I have a few issues with the series. I like Erikson's worldbuilding and his ideas of magic, but I didn't like many characters in the books. The few characters I were interested in, were absent for thousands of pages and other characters annoyed me, especially the men and women of those different Malazan troops. All those mages and warriors were too similar in style and in their choice of words.
The new book "Forges of Darkness" seems to get deeper into the background story of my favourite character Anomander Rake and that has renewed my interest of the Malazan books slightly.
I think, when the whole series is translated, I will read them all again.
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thank you madness:) great initiative creating this
Im kind of a newcomer to the fantasy genre,I have only read some some Robin Hobb,GRRM and Bakker
Bakker is by far my favorite,mostly because of the philosophical touch he has,which I loved.
So while we all are waiting for "the unholy consult", I guess im looking for something just as good:)
I was also wondering if anyone have read "the chronicles of Thomas Covenant" by Stephen Donaldson?
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Deadhouse Gates was the only really good Erikson volume imo. The others don't really live in the memory.
Stephen Donaldson I read a long time ago. Quite inventive, but rather depressing - the main character is a real asshat.
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If you are looking for more suggestions, there is a, somewhat brief, discussion on various other books the people around here would recommend in the Literature board.
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+1 for Deadhouse Gates, Curethan. Amazing book, even as just a stand-alone piece of Erikson's mosaic.
jan, I figure you'd enjoy the Tyrants and Kings trilogy by John Marco... last book suffers a little but The Grand Design is amazing as is the Jackal of Nar, though for quite different reasons (the latter is heavy, almost like fantasy trench-warfare, the former very political).
Hmm... Gemmell is always good for a real generic kick (nothing overly thought provoking).
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I also abandoned the series after Midnight Tides.His books have some interesting scenes and good worldbuilding but i think the guy needs a better editor because all of them are too big and i always find it quite a slog to finish them.Deadhouse Gates is definitely my favourite,the chain of dogs storyline is excellent.
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I would say that the Malazan series (Steven Erikson and lets not forget Ian C Esslemont) is a definite must if you are a fan of extensive storylines of the gritty fashion. I started reading Gardens of the Moon a long time ago, but dropped it after a while. Some years later I picked it up again and I've read everything published in the series so far since then... The series draws heavily upon Steven's and Ian's experiences of roleplaying the Malazan setting. Whether that is a plus or a minus is strictly individual and (to some extent) dependent on your own attitude towards roleplaying. Personally, I love it and I've got the feeling that you can detect highlights from their gaming sessions in the wittiness of the dialogue. One of the key features of the storyline is the reshaping of the pantheon of the world as well as the ascendancy of worldly characters to levels of grandness and (ultimately) divinity. In addition, I'd say that some parts of it (Deadhouse Gates primarily) is military fantasy at it's finest.
So, in short, a definate 'read' :-)
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I would say that the Malazan series (Steven Erikson and lets not forget Ian C Esslemont) is a definite must if you are a fan of extensive storylines of the gritty fashion. I started reading Gardens of the Moon a long time ago, but dropped it after a while. Some years later I picked it up again and I've read everything published in the series so far since then... The series draws heavily upon Steven's and Ian's experiences of roleplaying the Malazan setting. Whether that is a plus or a minus is strictly individual and (to some extent) dependent on your own attitude towards roleplaying. Personally, I love it and I've got the feeling that you can detect highlights from their gaming sessions in the wittiness of the dialogue. One of the key features of the storyline is the reshaping of the pantheon of the world as well as the ascendancy of worldly characters to levels of grandness and (ultimately) divinity. In addition, I'd say that some parts of it (Deadhouse Gates primarily) is military fantasy at it's finest.
So, in short, a definate 'read' :-)
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Thanks for the comments gentlemen
To me "thought provoking" is an essential criteria for good literature(and reading in general),so that is definetely what im looking for:)
Many people are saying the main character in Donaldsons "the chronicles of Thomas Covenant" is almost unbearable at times,and put the books away because he is not easy to get along with
I think I will give that one a go:)
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Galbrod: So you get more out of the books if you have a genuine interest in RPG?
Haven`t really done that you know:) I don`think playing Baldurs gate or Skyrim counts as RPG in that sense you are speaking of:)
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I'd call those books world building gone mad, and he has this awful habit of ending practically every few pages with a cliffhanger, or some cryptic reference that won't get resolved (if at all) until another chapter, or more likely another volume. I've long since exhausted all patience with it. Not to mention all the stuff that just make no rational sense.
May Kellhus strike that series dead. :)
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What a wonderful thing that the exact same texts/books can have such a different impact upon each of us :-) Jan, playing RPG:s is (in my mind) definately not a prerequisite for enjoying the Malazan series, I just feel some positive energies from (what I assume is) some of Steven's and Ian's previous gaming sessions leaking out through the wittiness of the dialogue between characters in the books.
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ah, sweet ambiguity, Galbrod. Let us sharpen our selves against these artifacts :).
I definitely can see how taking a roleplaying perspective enlightens the Book of the Fallen - it does seem to reflect the culmination of hundreds of failed and successful adventures.
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Maybe I will give that John Marco guy a chance,sounds interesting.
Do have a long list of non-fiction books,and a 6 months old baby in the house,so I can`t read all day anymore:)
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Lol, reading all day is for kids ;). But I still read every chance I can get through a couple pages.
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haha,well I have a job which I can pretty much do what I want,so I get alot of reading done there.
At home I have no time at all:)
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Haha! I first read the PON working at a full-serve PetroCan. I am Kellhus of 13 gas pumps :twisted: .
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haha,its great not to work while at work:)
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Buddy, I wish now. Do you realize how hard it is to run a restaurant and tell people to hold on while I just finish this damn page ;)?
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I can imagine that being non profitable for you:)
Set up a little library,and suggest an hour of "food for the brain" after dessert:)
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Haha! Love the thoughts - if only it were my restaurant... but no, I'm just part management team at yet another corporate nation.
Though I tell you. You'd not believe the judgements people make based on what I'm reading at any given time... speaks to the general ignorance of the Western Empire - even its fringe settlements.
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yes,those people pop up here in Norway too(of course they are everywhere)
Norway its such a strange country.So much wealth,and so few individuals.Our "problems" are a joke compared to almost any other nation on the planet.You would probably compare Norway to other European countries,which is wrong.We should be compared to Kuwait,Quatar etc,which are countries with an insanely amount of oil and few citicens to take care of.
Its really weird to exist here,knowing how the state is elsewhere.
Ignorance is bliss no matter where you are(I think):) What pisses me off the most is people who entertain themselves with crappy movies or sub par literature because "I don`t want to think". To me that is an amazing statement:)
there are rather few people around me I can recommend books to,and that is why I love the internet.
There are no borders on the net,no distance,and it will set the pace for a new world:)
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the last book i recomended to an actual person was Joe Abercrombie's First Law to my girlfriend, and subsequently her family. They all loved it.
Though I hope they don't come back looking for more entertaining fiction because they wouldn't like RSB. Oh wait, scratch that, they might enjoy Disciple of the Dog... but hopefully I can convince them to read TSA so they can forever judge me... Heretic.
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What pisses me off the most is people who entertain themselves with crappy movies or sub par literature because "I don`t want to think". To me that is an amazing statement:)
I've had this discussion in a number of different venues but I can't blame people for their ignorance. Most people are simply a product of the complexity Kellhus takes such advantage of. Hell, I've spent half of my life actively trying to understanding why I am who I am. Most don't even seem to have the initial ability to leverage themselves into self-reflection? And there are just so many cultural and social structures devoted to circumventing our choices, dictating our darkness.
there are rather few people around me I can recommend books to,and that is why I love the internet.
There are no borders on the net,no distance,and it will set the pace for a new world:)
It's a vital resource, which we need to protect as a species - there are those of us who wish only to control it, not enable it. We need a network, independent of institution. Humans for humans. Hackers will be instrumental in defending this generation of human freedom.
Heretic.
No better place to be than here ;).
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I totally agree
The most interesting people to talk to(or read) are for me those ones who are not stuck in a certain pattern of thinking.
People who say "I don`know,but maybe...." instead of pretending they know for certain.
Im not slagging off education in that sense,but sometimes you get stuck in the patterns of your curriculum,and if you add to that the money spent to enhance yourself in this particular way,you will most likely defend that bought knowledge with your claws out
If you for instance listen to Mckenna,you become aware of various kinds of education,and most defenetly will be compelled to his way of thinking well outside the box:)
Im not saying there is a right or wrong way,just that there are plenty of ways(if you think about it:))
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I'm not exactly morning sharp at the moment, which is upsetting as I was startled awake and am starting my day early lol :(. Definitely first world problem. But there is a nice metaphor in conversation that Proyas reflects on between him and Achamian about saying "I don't know," doubting, and how only the wisest and most intelligent in Proyas' childhood environment are those to doubt most often.
All is learning, jan. Every moment, all experience. Measure is unceasing ;). To reject spontaneous knowledge because of its medium is ignorance in a most distilled form.
I've always loved McKenna's enthusiasm, his courage, his insight. I might not advocate some of his teachings but its hard not to read his words or listen to him speak without him seeming very concise, well-read, and topical. His understanding of social interactions and collective agency is peerless. And it helps that Food of the Gods might well be the most original and rigorous piece of academia on hallucinogens and human evolution ever.
Plenty of ways :).
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Plenty of ways :).
the trackless steppe
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+1
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well said mr madness:)
Have been listening to the psychedelic salon podcasts lately,and so far I am amazed by this man(Mckenna)
You should check it out,but I have a feeling you already have:)
For a man who has "taken his whole bodyweight in psilosybin mushrooms"(Bill Hicks quote),his theories are often so out of this world,that im left dumbstruck:)
His voice is amazing too,and he has this almost magical poetic touch with words.Like his brother said"He could read from the phonebook and it would come out as profound knowledge":)
He is like Kellhus without muscles:)
I have "food of the goods",but I have not read all of it yet.Since English is my second language,it takes a lot of effort to grasp the theories.It is shame that 90% of my field of interest regarding books are only available in English
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Ah, Bill Hicks. Another of the great lost voices.
It's simply the way of the wind, jan - English is the language of the day, the language of our library. Tomorrow all philosophy and art (literature) might be teased within some Suni dialect. Its a pity that we don't foster more of a multilinguisitic world because there are trackless ways of expression available through multiple languages - the oft cited example is a Middle Eastern tongue with seventy-two words to express different kinds of love.
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Is anyone familiar with Peter V. Brett and his Demon Cycle? The series has been recommended to me several times and if it wasn't for my reread, I would have just jumped into it. Any thoughts?
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It's alright Garet.
Lurches from cool ideas and badass characters to meandering soap-opera.
Enjoyed it overall, but its not gonna change your world.
Easy read and fairly good fun imo.
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You should check ANdrzej Sapkowski and his books about The WItcher. Obviously a famous RPG gamed The Witcher 1 & 2 are derived from the series.
I know he was translated into many European languages and big hit in all EEurope countries but not sure what is available in English. Unfortunately a lot of the charm of the stories lies in a very god use of old Slavic vocabulary, which I presume is not translatetable into English very well.
But the stories and especially characters are very,very well build and its another strength of the books.
When I think of my fav books I always must choose between Tolkien, Sapkowski and RSB.
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+1 for Perspective, coobek.
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Garet, I agree with Curethan.
The Demon Cycle stuff is entertaining and well told, but is not exactly brain food; no resonance beyond the pages of the book, that is. I'll probably pick up the next Demon Cycle book when it is released later in the year. Be warned, the upcoming release will be book three of a projected five, if I remember correctly, so there will be some waiting involved, and like the Rothfuss series, the verdict is not out on the series as a whole. At least where I'm concerned.
Once I finish up this reading of WLW I'll probably dip into the most recent Joe Abercrombie book (RED COUNTRY). In my experience, he can be uneven from book to book, but his First Law series is satisfying. He's a fun blogger to read as well; like Rothfuss but with an ironic and self-referential sense of humor.
I'm considering starting into a book by Cathrynne Valente (DEATHLESS). Anyone have experience with her books? She's one that RSB linked to on TPB - a pretty great short story. Be sure to block out some time for it, it'll be hard to stop reading:
http://www.apex-magazine.com/the-bread-we-eat-in-dreams/ (http://www.apex-magazine.com/the-bread-we-eat-in-dreams/)
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I'm halfway through Deadhouse Gates (Malazan Book #2) at the moment. This series will take me a while, but I am loving it so far!
Before that I read Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle. It's not fantasy, strictly speaking, but I do enjoy Stephenson's writing.
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By Stephenson I've read Snow Crash, which was good stylish fun, and Cryptonomicon, which I absolutely loved. I got midway through Quicksilver and ran out of steam. I liked it, but sometimes it felt self-indulgent, and I was wanting more story. I should dig it up and try to find where I was as I'm now remembering things I quite enjoyed.
Has anyone read anything by Harold Lamb? It was mentioned on the old forum, and I'm considering giving it a spin.
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Do so. Real, real awesome. Bakker's omniscient war scenes remind of Homer, only until you read Lamb...
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I've got the first of the Khlit volumes sitting on my desk. Thanks for the recommendation! :)
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For sure... I should clarify I've only read his historical fictions (like Iron Men and Saints, which Bakker specifically mentions on the old forums or Emperor of All Men), not his... fictions that are historically based?