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Messages - EkyannusIII

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121
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Musing about the Outside
« on: October 16, 2013, 06:07:05 pm »
For example, I was thinking about the fact that Angelic Ciphrang can't be summoned. The way Bakker says it, this could either mean no such Ciphrang exist, or it could mean that they do exist but no one has caught one via the Daimos...possibly because some property of being Angelic prevents their conjuration into Earwa.

I was thinking about this issue recently.  My theory: the reason angelic Ciphrang cannot be summoned is not merely that they don't exist - Bakker has said that they do and it would be an odd ommission from the religious tropes he is working with if they were not real.  Rather, the issue is the Daimos itself.  If angelic Ciphrang are up to moral standards per Bakkerverse's baked-in morality, then they would be unwilling to sin - and if summoning higher entities as servants is sin, then the nature of the Daimotic pact would simply be incompatible with what and who angelic Ciphrang are.  The bindings involved in the socerous pact would not hold them, and in any case they would not and could not do what the summoner requested.  Trying to get an angelic Ciphrang to serve you in sin is just a category mistake.

122
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: October 16, 2013, 05:36:23 pm »
I don't think we know enough to hazard Saccarees' age.

This is true, and yet ... his age is unmentioned, which means that it does not stand out.  Who is he commonly in the company of?  The other leaders of his leg of the Ordeal, and before that the leading Mandati and perhaps some other grandees of the Kellian Empire - he is dicussed as a known quantity, a famous figure, when he appears for the first time, so he had been a fixture in the new order of things for some time at least.  He could be unusually young for his degree of eminence, say, thirty or so... Yet now I am just reminded that Proyas was rather young himself in the First Holy War, and his age was rarely mentioned due to his royal rank. Too many factors, the trance has failed me!

123
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who destroyed the Dunyain monastery?
« on: July 10, 2013, 06:19:06 pm »
+1 Full-Dunyain Progeny of Kellhus.


An interesting idea.

How old is Saccarees? Is it ever mentioned? He was unheard of in trilogy one and then twenty years later is Grandmaster of the Mandate. I find it unlikely that a grown man could just join a School, it would raise questions about where he came from and how he was missed by the same people who found Akka et al.  Could he be young then? I wonder if his hair is blonde?

124
General Earwa / Re: Chorae and the Judging Eye
« on: July 10, 2013, 05:46:38 pm »
I'm away from my books at the moment (and don't recall TJE too clearly to be honest...) so forgive me if I have forgotten something, but I wanted to point this out:



Thorsten's Metaphysics of Earwa II - Post-TJE

Quote from: Thorsten
The Judging Eye

The strongest evidence that Kellhus does in fact not represent the God is given by what Mimara's Judging Eye sees in Achamian. Supposedly the Judging Eye should show an objective moral judgement (we have at present no way of really knowing if that is the case, but I'm willing to accept the idea for the moment). Since Kellhus claimed he can rewrite the holy texts and in doing so save the sorcerers from damnation, but Mimara continues do see the damnation of sorcerers, it would follow that Kellhus' claim is wrong. And if Kellhus' claims to spiritual matters are wrong, he cannot be a prophet or represent the God. This would make him appear as someone who poses as a prophet to make use of the belief of others for his own ends - just what he started out to do back in DB.

It is a class A non-sequitur to derive the damnation of all sorcerors from the damnation of Achamian, because Akka has 1.) Publically renounced Kellhus, whom he knows to be the Harbinger, and 2.) Akka is the only Wizard in the entire Three Seas, which means his practice of sorcery is well outside whatever boundaries Zaudunyanni Inrithism may set to newly legitimate conjuring.  In other words, Akka is not an adeqautely representative sample, because his individual situation is such that factors other than sorcery prevent him from benefiting from Kellhus' salvation even if every word from Kell's mouth is undiluted truth.




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The truly interesting question is - what does Mimara see when she looks at Kellhus with the Judging Eye? ... Unfortunately, we don't know (although it's a bit of a stretch that Mimara who spent time close to Kellhus wouldn't know and Achamian wouldn't ask her).


SHOW US BAKKER SHOW US

125
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: June 05, 2013, 08:38:37 pm »
Regarding Esmi:

Yes but why. We are not Serw... I mean Esmi. What is the reason that he could only find 1? Or, why pretend like it?

The reason is plot convenience.  The idea that some streetwalker from Sumna is the only woman in the Three Seas able to carry Kellhus' ubermensch-seed is preposterous - well born women would almost certainly be much more intelligent than someone from the poorer classes - but Bakker needs a motive to keep Akka at Kellhus' throat, so cuckoldry is the subplot he employs.  It would have been better to leave her with Akka and have her place taken by an Anna Comnena like character, the niece of Xerius and last of the Ikurei, who chronicled the Holy War like the real Anna wrote the Alexiad.  This would give Bakker a new fictional author to provide epigraphs from, another way to have Kellhus grab power (marrying into the last of the old dynasty) and it could be another Dune reference (to Irulan).  But no, we have to have the cuck subplot.

126
General Misc. / Re: So, whut up with male 'privilege'?
« on: May 09, 2013, 04:24:21 pm »
I apologize for bailing on a thread I contributed two lengthy messages too, I have been otherwise occupied lately.  For now, let me post this to sciborg2:


I'll also say I find the EkyannusIII references to accepting biology to be dubious, as there's no reference to any peer reviewed journals to clarify/support his points.

I find only two references to biology in my posts:

1.)
It is sexist but it isn't a problem for me, MRAs are dangerous in themselves, feminists are only dangerous (as opposed to amusing) because they have men to enforce their doctrines for them.  This is true for any feminist issue including abortion (kept legal because some men find it convenient for themselves and because some like to play White Knight over the matter; if only women supported abortion it wold never have been legalized). 


and

2.)

Quote from: Callan
Yeah, as a secondary concern women might want to set up defences. But as a secondary concern, that's not making your life revolve around such things.

But when someone treats fear of sexual assault as the normalised first and foremost way a woman should think about her life - is that liberty?

No, but it is the inevitable result of expecting them to defend themselves when they are "liberated" from the patriarchal authority of a father, brother, or husband. Another way feminism victimizes women.  At least the older generation understood that biology had to be compensated for in order to achieve equality, the current fools are convinced that biology is a hate crime and seek to suppress it, which only leaves women vulnerable before the inegalitarian reality of human nature, against which there are no longer any social and moral strictures other than threat of violent coercion by law.  Shooting the messenger, turned up to 12.



Unless I have forgotten something else in my posts (entirely possible, it has been a few days and my mind has been elsewhere) you appear to be asking me for peer-reviewed articles demonstrating that men are bigger and stronger than women.  Am I misreading you?

127
The Warrior-Prophet / Re: His PROOF...
« on: May 08, 2013, 08:24:40 pm »
But have you ever noticed that Serwe becomes Kellhus' proof as well?  She's his proof that he is a God.

You mean to himself? The rest of the Three Seas seems to need no such proof, having many others at hand.



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Everyone knows that Cnaiur uses Serwe as his prize, his proof.  His proof that he is Scylvendi.  His proof that he is heterosexual.

I always thought Cnaiur's "homosexuality" was overblown.  He is attracted to one man (Papa Moe) or arguably two (also Kellhus, who is apparently shockingly like Moe in appearence) in a lifetime, in which he otherwise finds time to rape innumerable women (all presumably attractive) and marry IIRC four wives, one of which, Anissi, he is repeatedly stated to genuinely love enough to reveal his shame too.  That sounds less like a homosexual than a man who was sweet-talked into buttsex he wouldn't have otherwise been interested in while still a vulnerable adolescent.

In some ways I think the Dunyain's suppression of emotion impairs their interaction with mundanes in more ways than we realize.  If Moe wanted to own Cnaiur, all he had to do was offer himself as a surrogate father figure rather than a seducer; the effect in Moe's favor would have been the same, and he would have been able to go back to Cnaiur for more help as needed since Cnaiur wouldn't hate him (imagine if Cnaiur ended up becoming King-of-Tribes and received orders from Moe to submit himself to Kellhus along with the entire Scylvendi nation to prosecute the Holy War...).  He even could have used most of the other strategies he employed (e.g. the trackless plains metaphor).  But no, Moe has to go for the quick and dirty (literally in this case) fix.  Same thing with the swazond on his arms.  He could have been ridden to the borders of the steppe by Scylvendi he controlled, but he had to mark himself and then deal with the unforseen consequences.

Kellhus does the same thing with Akka over Esmenet.  Akka probably cannot defeat Kellhus, but he could have served him, and instead Kellhus goes and blows that all on the absurd premise that Esmi is the smartest woman he is going to meet in the Three Seas.  How is making enemies unnnecessarily the Shortest Path?

On the basis of these examples I think the Dunyain's lack of empathy impairs their ability to adequately cognize the long-term consequences of emotional manipulation.  Perhaps they cannot imagine that people have difficulty "getting over it" since this is plainly no problem for them...

128
General Misc. / Re: Aphorismata
« on: May 08, 2013, 03:59:44 pm »
The fanatic contracts all value into a singular point; because of this he exceeds all men in his pragmatism.

129
General Misc. / Aphorismata
« on: May 08, 2013, 03:18:30 pm »
Sinners praise in others the virtues they find least threatening to themselves.

130
General Misc. / Re: So, whut up with male 'privilege'?
« on: May 02, 2013, 11:23:37 pm »
While we're no doubt in agreement of the graver faults of social justice people, let's not forget the other side of the spectrum: Men's Right Activists, who are exactly the type of hideously creepy, entitled, suburban whitebread persecution-card-waving twats that feminists rail against.

Cheerfully granted, they are an unappealing group of people whatever the justice of their complaints.


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This might be construed as sexist, but I find something inherently more vile and predatory about hate speech coming out of the mouths of these neanderthals than feminists.

It is sexist but it isn't a problem for me, MRAs are dangerous in themselves, feminists are only dangerous (as opposed to amusing) because they have men to enforce their doctrines for them.  This is true for any feminist issue including abortion (kept legal because some men find it convenient for themselves and because some like to play White Knight over the matter; if only women supported abortion it wold never have been legalized). 


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Their condemnations of the feminist movement are so sexually charged as opposed to their counterparts that it really unsettles me in a very deep way. Instead of working on themselves as human beings and taking rejection in stride, they retreat into their little circlejerk cocoons on reddit and demonize women for not wanting to fuck them.


Yes this is very true.


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They've also assimilated a lot of the other more vocal young male groups into themselves,

That's because some of their criticisms have objective merit, despite the loathsomeness of the critics in question.  This is what you would expect: some people are marginal, and some are central, and when a society begins to fail system-wide the marginals will be hurt first, and thus be the first to formulate an ideology of self-defense and anger.  The test of MRA ideas will come when they are appealing to men who aren't losers but who are rather merely mediocre, the sort who can't win in the sexual marketplace without some social stabilizing factors in much the same way that middle class / working class people can't win in the economic marketplace (sorry for the pleonasm there) without some stabilizing laws and institutions.  In my opinion the growing popularity of the MRA narrative you are seeing is a sign that this is happening. The next 10-20 years will tell for sure.


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The extreme views of one side fuels the extreme views of another, so I think it behooves us all as a species to take a step back from all this bullshit and take a deep breath.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, and I mean that since I was expecting the first response to be a hysterical flame and was pleased to get something thoughtful and honest instead, but we absolutely do not need to backoff because the issues that are being fought over are fundamental and require decision, not conciliation.  Take, again, abortion: if feminists are right, then allowing abortion to be illegal everywhere is tantamount to allowing sexual slavery for the purposes of procreation; but if the pro-lifers are right, then allowing abortion anywhere is tantamount to allowing state-sanctioned baby murder.  There is no room for a third position here, one can only choose.  The democratic state we are used to considering normal is not good at this kind of political activity, and so the pressure to make a definitive choice keeps building, on this and on other core issues.  When the pressure explodes will it be less destructive than what might have come about under other circumstances? That to me is not clear at all.

Thank you again for the thoughtful and sincere reply.

131
General Misc. / Re: So, whut up with male 'privilege'?
« on: May 02, 2013, 09:49:56 pm »
I ran across this idea of 'male privilege' recently.

The idea of calling it a 'privilege' handed out to other males (which is a fallacy anyway)

Yes, the false premise is that everyone must be identical in every measurable respect and that if this is not so then a malevolent social structure is at fault.  This is typical of Leftists, though the current generation have taken it to insane depths.

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that they aren't rape targets seemed utterly false to me. Indeed to call it a 'privilege' seems by common standards to legitimise the sex preditor.

No, privilege is a dirty word in our society because it implies differences in value between persons. Since mass democracy runs on envy such things cannot be allowed, it will offend the malcontents who have anointed themselves spokepersons for "tha Peepul".

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Got my reply to it deleted in responce, of course. Hopefully the admin on that other board helped rather than hindered female liberty in enacting such intellectual dishonesty.

http://encyclopediadramatica.se/Hugbox

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(I can link if you want)

yes pls

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seemed to have women base every activity they do in life, first and foremost, around evading sexual assault. Eg, not having a ladies night because that might be fun, but a ladies night as a kind of wagon circle. Out of fear.

Is that liberty?

Of course not.

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Yeah, as a secondary concern women might want to set up defences. But as a secondary concern, that's not making your life revolve around such things.

But when someone treats fear of sexual assault as the normalised first and foremost way a woman should think about her life - is that liberty?

No, but it is the inevitable result of expecting them to defend themselves when they are "liberated" from the patriarchal authority of a father, brother, or husband. Another way feminism victimizes women.  At least the older generation understood that biology had to be compensated for in order to achieve equality, the current fools are convinced that biology is a hate crime and seek to suppress it, which only leaves women vulnerable before the inegalitarian reality of human nature, against which there are no longer any social and moral strictures other than threat of violent coercion by law.  Shooting the messenger, turned up to 12.


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And to call it male privilege - it smacks of 'just world' bias to call it privilege, as if some system is being enacted?

Again Callan, that is exactly what they think - everyone is the same until evil Alien Powers made us different.  They are obviously wrong, and insane, but don't look for them to change anytime soon, since this is their masturbatory pseudo-religion.

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Or what, when I think calling it 'privilege' is legitimising the sad twisted wrecks that the predator is, am I mistaken? Sounds kind of legitimising to me?

You seem to be unwise to the current purely derogatory use of "privilege" in contemporary America. In other times and places your interpretation would be valid.

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Anyway, it seems like it's a big word around town

Move. Seriously.

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and I remember it from the ROH run ins a bit now

I read little of that shit but I am not surprised.

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- so whut up with male 'privilege'?

It's a propaganda term designed to stigmatize differential conditions among persons as prima facie evidence of moral trespass and social failure, regardless of any consideration for causality (never discussed, esp. when the actions of the allgeded victim might have meaningful bearing on the "injustice" in question) or for actual merit (everyone is assumed to be equally meritorious at all times, except of course for "bigots").  Thus the fact that I do not expect to be a rape target is "male privilege", the fact that I do not expect to be frisked by cops randomly is "white privilege", the fact that I expect to be able vote when Felipe the lawn care guy from the Yucatan cannot is also "white privilege", the fact that I can walk around in public without people misjudging my gender is "cis privilege", the fact that I can marry someone from the gender I find sexy is "straight privilege", etc. ad nauseum.   

132
News/Announcements / Re: Welcome to the Second Apocalypse
« on: April 25, 2013, 06:22:13 pm »
Found it.

Clarification everyone - when Madness says that the Quorum is at the "top of the forum" he means the top page, i.e. the overall forum index; it cannot be seen from any particular thread or even a subforum.

133
EkyannusIII you may be interested in this link if you havent been through it already.

http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/dune-frank-herbert-and-tsa-bakker-t1243938.html

Thread strikes gold on the second page, thanks Wilshire:

Quote from: Madness
Character parallels have been a pretty distinct for me. Moenghus the Elder is Paul. Paul doesn't see/doesn't accept his place in the symbiosis or Leto sees farther/accepts his Father's denied fate.

Bullseye.

134
News/Announcements / Re: Welcome to the Second Apocalypse
« on: April 25, 2013, 04:13:11 pm »
Ekyannus - assuming all has gone right, there should be an auto-collapsed category marked Quorum at the top of the forum (this only appears for logged-in users). This is the Second Apocalypse chat box.

I am sorry to say that I can't see it.  edit: Perhaps "The Slog" would be more apt?

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Conduct will be judged by the community: redemption or damnation ;).

I'll keep my fascist Dominionism pithy.

135
I don't remember Khellus ever decieving Serwe. 
She says something about his assumed divinity and Kellhus responds by telling her its a sham ("I am just the promise").

It would be greatly amusing if the biggest suprise of TUC is that Kellhus dies like Paul Atreides and the real protagonist of the metaseries is his Leto-II like son.

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