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Messages - Wic

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31
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: May 18, 2016, 11:07:43 am »
REVELATIONS! More than I ever would have expected from a chapter excerpt. I feel like we could spend a year dissecting it (if we had to).

On profgrape's #3, if the purpose of souls are to be conceptually shredded and consumed by the gods/demons (not sure how the god-of-gods fits), then what creates them? If that's the end, what is the start? And what, presumably, does that have to do with Yatwer?

I was kind of blown away by how the Esmi section drew me in, the writing was phenomenal. That rapid scattered fire of memories, delusions, perspectives and fears in full panic.

I agree with profgrape that the 'head on a pole' is Kell's solid, Worldly self...at least somewhat. It's a strange image, but I do think the pole implies some sort of rigidity, and that it is behind him is some kind of dissociation. The passage suggests that 1. the head 'cannot be moved', and 2. it is reason to 'fear not damnation'.

I wonder if this has something to do with how Kell apparently sees the empire and TTT nearly indistinguishable from his own self.

Next thought - what the hell is up with Dunyain breeding methods!? There's surely something more than just some goofy ritualistic nonsense.

The introduction of that behavioral oddity, and as merchant said, all the mention of sons, makes me wonder...

Who is the Dunyain...character that Pat said is introduced?

32
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who destroyed the [spoiler] monastery?
« on: April 01, 2016, 01:11:09 am »

Yes, there's no mention of the glacier in the prologue.  And we know that there's a glacier leading to Ishual.  But what if the map lead them to the ruins in the valley instead of Ishual?
Coincidentally, just read this during the Kell/Moe conversation:
Quote
From the very first, ever since descending the glaciers into the wastes of Kuniuri, Kellhus had pondered the man now leading him through these galleries of darkness.

33
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The final 100
« on: March 29, 2016, 10:44:37 am »
I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel, I already ordered the book and I am debating whether to pay for 1 day delivery or the standard shipping. The one day nearly doubles the price, but I am not sure I can wait the week until delivery.
I flinched for a moment, but did indeed double my price with the one day shipping.  Treating myself.  Or at least my ravenous hunger.

34
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The final 100
« on: March 27, 2016, 09:35:36 pm »
Already told my boss I might have to take a day off in early July to read a book.

"But you read books here all the time."
"Not like this I don't."

35
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Akka and Ishual
« on: March 01, 2016, 10:49:19 am »
Akka finds, in a courtyard, Seswatha's heart. Grasping it again he has further revelations about the past. Revelations that lead him to the metagnosis and the Great Ordeal.

36
General Earwa / the No-God, the Logos, and Zen Koans
« on: February 08, 2016, 07:39:49 pm »
So I was reading about zen koans and came across these quotes through wiki:
Quote
Huà-tόu is literally translated as “word head” but is also translated as “critical phrase”.  Before the term was appropriated by Zen teachers it was used to refer to the main idea of a literary passage.  In Zen, it refers to the nature of the origin or source of a thought, word, or phrase that arises in one’s mind, or, more poetically, to “the mind before it is stirred”.

All hua-tous have one thing in common.  See if you can figure out what it is from these six common ones:
Now tell me some of this don't strike you as familiar:
Quote
Who is it who now repeats the Buddha's name? TELL ME
Who is dragging this corpse about? WHAT DO YOU SEE
What is this?
What is it?
What was my original face before my father and mother were born? WHO AM I
and further:
Quote
Hua-tou practice is about looking deeply into the nature of being by asking ourselves an open-ended question which we lock into our brains and return to again and again.  The objective is not to answer it, but to play with it, letting it taunt, tease, and torment us.
I looked up koans because I heard about this idea that in some styles of zen buddhism, the whole point of a koan is to present such an absurdist notion, that by meditating deeply enough on it causes the conscious mind to itself enter a state of absurdism.  From the wiki:
Quote
A koan is a story, dialogue, question, or statement, which is used in Zen practice to provoke the "great doubt" and test a student's progress in Zen practice.
Not just a destruction of meaning, but an embracing, or maybe even a becoming, of that destruction. An especially significant act in a world that is, by the author's words, the story of someone bringing meaninglessness to a meaningful world.

So all that is just what I wanted to put out there for everyone to consider, because I believe the parallels are too close to ignore.

It made me think of the Dunyain 'The logos is without beginning or end'. A significant declaration. A statement. And in that - whelming cycle? - we see Kellhus go through, it ends with 'The' repeated, which is declarative in itself (I think - some of you guys are so into linguistics, I don't want to look like an asshole).

If we treat each progressive cycle of the 'logos' mantra like a statement or an answer, or an understanding, and everything said by the No-God as a question, or a blindness...

Are the Dunyain (or just Kellhus) the answer to the No-God?

And what's the self-certainty that the No-God denies when it exists, to the point that souls can't be brought into this world?

OK OK OK I gotta stop just to put this out to you guys.

37
General Misc. / Re: Rick and Morty
« on: January 29, 2016, 02:04:06 am »
As per the finale:

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

38
General Earwa / Re: Cishaurim
« on: July 14, 2015, 05:34:01 am »
Quote
They recall the tone and timbre, the passion, of the God’s voice—to near perfection—even as the meanings that make up true sorcery escape them
Quote from: H
I think Kellhus might be wrong, in the sense that Cishaurim blind themselves not to see more, but to literally see less.  The world itself is vulgar in the sense and the Onta is pure, so they see only the purity of their own intention and intuition, not the contradiction between the world they know and the world they see.
There may be a hint there, when we think about how Bakker's personal godlessness applies to a universe where a god exists. It may be that the Cishaurim study very little if any of their own powers, because it is borne of faith - which is to say, something that is not at all studied, but merely accepted as is, and that the most powerful Cish are those utterly willing to accept without analyzing even slightly.  The 'meanings that make up true sorcery escape them' because anything more analytical would, by the nature of observation and consideration, diminish the strength of their sorcery. To consider is to diminish.  Moenghus cannot help but to see, even blinded, the mechanisms that allow the Water to flow, and so he is restricted to the most nuanced applications.

39
There are some pretty noticeable connections between Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy and various parts of the series, I.E. a band of wildly violent scalpers led by a hard-ass (Glanton/Kosoter) and a quasi-mystical figure (The Judge/Cleric). I actually think the Judge may have been an influence on the design of all Nonmen, as both are completely hairless and have marmoreal skin.
I dunno if the nonmen connection holds, I don't see them as gods of war.  That's a great comparison between Glanton and Kosoter though.  Kinda makes Kosoter all the more terrifying, to me.

I do think the quote he uses (is it in TJE? I haven't my books) might shed light on the character of this second apocalypse.  "So, here are the dead fathers", here's a longer quote (bold mine, obviously, since McCarthy can't even be arsed to use much more than a period):
Quote
The people who once lived here are called the Anasazi. The old ones. They quit these parts, routed by drought or disease or by wandering bands of marauders, quit these parts ages since and of them there is no memory. They are rumors and ghosts in this land and they are much revered. The tools, the art, the building— these things stand in judgement on the latter races. Yet there is nothing for them to grapple with. The old ones are gone like phantoms and the savages wander these canyons to the sound of an ancient laughter. In their crude huts they crouch in darkness and listen to the fear seeping out of the rock. All progressions from a higher to a lower order are marked by ruins and mystery and a residue of nameless rage. So. Here are the dead fathers. Their spirit is entombed in the stone. It lies upon the land with the same weight and the same ubiquity. For whoever makes a shelter of reeds and hides has joined his spirit to the common destiny of creatures and he will subside back into the primal mud with scarcely a cry. But who builds in stone seeks to alter the structure of the universe and so it was with these masons however primitive their works may seem to us.

40
Atrocity Tales / Re: The Four Revelations of Cinial'jin
« on: April 22, 2015, 05:11:37 am »
Huh...how long did it take the nonmen to realize that atrocity and horror were the surest way to retain memory?

41
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Moenghus the Elder's (Other) Children
« on: March 17, 2015, 03:34:28 pm »

I think Samarmas is smarter than Kelmomas.
I feel like someone's brought this up already, but maybe he's very close to being a self-moving soul, untethered to his own darkness and able to sift through Kel's.

42
General Earwa / Re: The Womb-Plague (A new theory, perhaps?)
« on: March 14, 2015, 03:42:17 pm »
I don't remember it making the men sick.  From the TTT Glossary:
Quote
The Second Watch was disbanded and the Inchoroi moved freely among the Cunuroi of Siol, becoming their physicians.  They ministered to all, dispensing the remedies that would at once make the Nonmen immortal and doom them.  Soon all the Cunuroi of Earwa, even those who had initially questioned Cu'jara-Cinmoi's wisdom, had succumbed to the Inchoroi and their nostrums.
According to the Isuphiryas, the first victim of the Womb-Plague was Hanalinqu, Cu'jara-Cinmoi's legendary wife.  The chronicler actually praises the diligence and skill of the High King's Inchoroi physicians.  But as the Womb-Plague killed more and more Cunuroi women, this praise becomes condemnation.  Soon all the women of the Cunuroi, wives and maidens both, were dying.  The Inchoroi fled the Mansions, returning to their ruined vessel.

Also probably worth noting, that immortality was not the Inchoroi's idea.  When they asked what tribute would temper the High King's Fury, he responds 'I would be young of heart, face, and limb.  I would banish Death from the halls of my people.'

43
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: February 17, 2015, 03:37:33 pm »
Seizing with the full weight of his focus and perception indicates a profound and bone deep lust for power kellhus is apparently blind to in himself.

Which becomes pretty explicit when kellhus gazes on the nansurium and decides he's going to seize the whole world.  His lust for power far outstrips conphas or any other character.
IIRC, he surmised that the only way to get to his father, who had been in the World for 30 years and held untold power, was to wield the Holy War.  Not until the visions on the circumfix did he truly seek to control the Three Seas (which is arguably towards a goal we are unaware of, so again not necessarily about power).

44
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: February 17, 2015, 03:58:35 am »
The goal of Dunyain philosophy is a manipulation of the self, that it becomes capable of moving through the world purely under it's own volition.  Manipulation of circumstance is a secondary effect, and a lust for power the way Man would consider it isn't a quality they seem to have.

Remember how surprised Kell was to see how mundane people wore a second face, lying to themselves.  He wasn't really expecting this particular set of circumstances, but seized on it with the full weight of his focus and perception.

45
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The Harbinger
« on: February 09, 2015, 06:58:57 am »
Is he...going to sacrifice all who have touched Seswatha's Heart?

Would Serwe know?

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