Newborn babies and mothers in TSA

  • 22 Replies
  • 6008 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2891
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 11:59:11 am »
Well, we can consider that the status of "motherhood" is holy and that the innocence of the newly born is also holy, while also acknowledging that those receiving such "blessings" can still be damned.  In both cases, it's not as an "Achievement Unlock" or something, that automatically places on in "blessed status."  It's a holy action/status, but those in service to the holy are not immune to other sin, or the capriciousness of the Hundred.

The kicker about Eärwa is that it is a fundamentally sexist place.  That is because the literal fundiment, the Cubit, is sexist.  There is a "divine" ontological order that proceeds from that, which places women in a "lower" status than men.  People are apt to question why Bakker would do this, while not questioning why nearly every "civilized" society in the human history has done the same.  Bakker does it to highlight how stupid and fucked up it is to imagine that value should be ordered by some remote, inhuman, arbitrary thing.  Questioning why the Cubit is sexist really doesn't provide any answers.  The point is more to ask, not "Why this Cubit?" but rather, "why any Cubit at all?"
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

TaoHorror

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1152
  • Blueberry Psûkhe Sorcerer
    • View Profile
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 01:42:14 pm »
I don't think it's arbitrary, but suspect evolution is to blame. Once "humans" achieved consciousness ( at our level and a few other mammalians perhaps ), the necessity to "fight" became more than instinct, so to ensure a species could still "fight" given they can now "choose" to override that reality, men developed anger management issues ... evolution has been fucking us up, in other words ... and continues to do so ( why we love poisons so much, such as processed sugar ). We are in the throws of circumventing/overcoming evolution, could be centuries before we become at peace with it. In the meantime, we stare back at history and wonder, "what were they thinking?".
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2891
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 03:18:59 pm »
I don't think it's arbitrary, but suspect evolution is to blame. Once "humans" achieved consciousness ( at our level and a few other mammalians perhaps ), the necessity to "fight" became more than instinct, so to ensure a species could still "fight" given they can now "choose" to override that reality, men developed anger management issues ... evolution has been fucking us up, in other words ... and continues to do so ( why we love poisons so much, such as processed sugar ). We are in the throws of circumventing/overcoming evolution, could be centuries before we become at peace with it. In the meantime, we stare back at history and wonder, "what were they thinking?".

I don't disagree with you.  In the real word, the "rules" probably came (come) from the way our brains came to be and continue to work, despite being totally divorced from much of our present day reality.

I meant arbitrary more in reference to the Cubit being external and completely inhuman.  In order words, on Eärwa, the "order" comes down completely independent of human beings.  It's not that Eärwa evolved to be what it is, it was dictated to it by metaphysical influences.  In this sense, the real world is much worse, because we made it as bad as it is (was).  In Eärwa there was far less of a choice, being dictated by the Cubit.

Kellhus, despite not being a very good guy, still does appeal to more of our "modern" sensibilities.  That is why, even when we dislike him or his methods, we still begrudgingly "like" what seems to be his "social standpoint" (being mostly egalitarian).
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

TaoHorror

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 1152
  • Blueberry Psûkhe Sorcerer
    • View Profile
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 04:22:19 pm »
True, Earwa has "been messed with" by divine influence - which yields an interesting paradox ... why so the Cubit if the gods damn the participators, offering salvation for those ignorant of what you say the're responsible for? Something more is amiss.
It's me, Dave, open up, I've got the stuff

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2891
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 05:16:40 pm »
True, Earwa has "been messed with" by divine influence - which yields an interesting paradox ... why so the Cubit if the gods damn the participators, offering salvation for those ignorant of what you say the're responsible for? Something more is amiss.

Hmm, well, I would imagine (based on nothing) that the Cubit predates any and all of the gods.  I wonder if they can actually supersede the judgement of the Cubit?  Or maybe that is more the point, that the gods are essentially at something of a war with the Cubit.  I've thought about it some, how if the gods feed on damnation, why would they ever want anyone to be saved?

Perhaps something of the answer is that they can't really override the judgement of the Cubit.  So, if this was the case, what the Hundred want everyone to do is be devoted to them, so their soul is noticeable to them, and in the course of devotion somehow fundamentally violating some rule of the Cubit.  In this way, damnation comes and the soul is reaped by that god.

I need to think through this more though, it's something that is rife with paradox...
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Dora Vee

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • The quest--it is your master.
    • View Profile
    • Divinesong
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 05:20:52 pm »
Quote
we still begrudgingly "like" what seems to be his "social standpoint" (being mostly egalitarian).

Only in the sense that you're seen as a thing to exploit and discard.
Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.   
                          -Ajencis, the fourth analytic of man

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 2891
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 05:31:51 pm »
Quote
we still begrudgingly "like" what seems to be his "social standpoint" (being mostly egalitarian).

Only in the sense that you're seen as a thing to exploit and discard.

That isn't really out of line with (some) aspects of modern thought though, which is my point.  Consider things like low-wage work and many other examples, humans (and their labor) are treated as a commodity.  As Bakker has said, Kellhus offers the "illusion of modernity."
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5272
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2018, 09:53:39 pm »
A little off topic but I was watching Zaudunyanicon videos from the Friday night and in parallel with this conversation I'm reminded of something Bakker and I have talked about at some length a number of times over the past six years (as he repeats it almost verbatim about Kellhus and the Swayal).

Take any war but specifically WWI and WWII in America (and very likely many other countries involved in the conflict): women (and children) are called up by necessity, whatever expression that behavior takes (as many women and children just straight up fight too, as well as take on the vacant sociocultural roles traditionally occupied by men).
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer