littlegrice, I'm not sure if you'd have been exposed to this before but Bakker has mentioned over the years that the omnipresent war POVs were heavily influenced by both Homer but specifically Harold Lamb's Iron Men and Saints.

Great read, as is much of his other historical fiction (I can't speak to his fantasy fiction, though I'm sure its worth reading too).

Now it's officially on the 'to read' list.

So I have been giving this some thought for some time, back when I thought Kelmomas could be rehabilitated and help the so-called good guys, but with recent twists, it think it has become even MORE relevant, and not just a figment of my over-active imagination. 

Twin Souls i.e. having more than one person in one person.  How would that affect Cants?  I have a few possibilities:

  1.  The extra soul adds inutterals, making Meta Gnostic Cants, or (what?) Ultra Meta Gnostic Cants for someone like Kellhus who can already do Meta Gnostic?
  2.  The extra soul makes his own inutterals, playing off the utterals of the Speaker, but to achieve a different Cant altogether.  Two for the price of one.
  3.  I don't have a third, but lists should have at least three points...so...

Then there are the questions...if Shauriatas IS inside the Mutilated, can the fact that he is one of the Few allow the ones who are not among the Mutilated to use Cants?  Does he make the one(s) who are more powerful, or is his soul a distraction?  Which is more important, the utteral or the inutteral?  One completes the other, but must they BOTH be anchored in the mystery of the Few?  Or as long as there is one, the other can compensate? 

Crack-pot and maybe(probably?) a pointless talk, since it may(will?) not come to pass, but it has been gnawing at me for years, so I would love some fellow Apocalypse Nerds' thoughts on this.

Given the method of his use as a POV in the Mansion, Bakker could literally have used any character for that. It also bugs me that when he died he wasn't even really sorweel. A lot of his identity was just suddenly consumed by the White Luck with no warning. Something about the whole thing just feels off to me, and not in a good "Damn you brilliant bastard for making me like this character" way.

He couldn't have though, right?  Not without using an Erratic, and we have all seen how confusing THAT is from the Atrocity Tale.  Sorweel was the only human that(sort of) had free reign in the Mansion.  I definitely agree that for as much time we spent with him, he went out quick and ugly, and to no real purpose from the viewpoint of those of us whom had begrudgingly come to like him. 

I think maybe he was there mostly to show is the last Nonman Mansion and how bad it had really become for them, and to somehow have a POV that wasn't just being tortured for however long it was they were there.  Before and after that, he was just a vessel of the Dread Mother.  All of his good stuff came from the Mansion.

Quote from: littlegrice on August 01, 2017, 12:38:16 am

It's also why some of them were waging war on Kellhus, because he was the only thing they could attribute all the commotion to. 

I really need to finish reading the book (savouring it!) but I think this a fairly common misconception so far. The Gods aren't hunting Kellhus, they're hunting Ajokli, whom they know is making a play for whatever Ajokli wants through Kellhus' mortal coil.

Ehh...little of column A, little of column B.

Quote from: littlegrice on August 01, 2017, 04:28:49 am

I think that just became my signature.  I love this site!

Well met, littlegrice . Love the choice of avatar, by the way.

Why thank you, good sir. 

Wasn't the Chorae that hit Serwa the same that had been given to Sorweel via Yatwer? (I remember it being described as suddenly coming out of nowhere...) Maybe it's a combination of the effects of the pouch and the sword that renders it less effective, or makes it so that its effect is not immediate?

The Chorae coming out of nowhere.  I was thinking it was little Kelmomas on his way to kill dad, and saw Serwa fighting for her life, and thought 'well, now, another sibling to kill?  why not?'  He knew no one found the artifact on Sorweel, so he could have stopped on his way to the Golden room to find it real quick.

Quote from: Woden on July 24, 2017, 09:05:45 pm

Quote from: TheCulminatingApe on July 24, 2017, 08:11:20 pm

Quote from: Woden on July 23, 2017, 10:33:42 pm

Serwa could be dead, but I bet that she is going to be more "hunger" than "fodder".
Remember that Mimara saw her like a ciphrang.

Serwa was mortally wounded (according to Kayutas) by a laser weapon, then had one of her hands/ arms salted off, and was then buried by collapsing debris.  Even if she somehow teleported out, I don't see how she can have lived

Yes, I think she's dead but maybe we will see her again not in Earwa but at the Outside as some kind of cute Ciphrang.

I thought she was dead when the roof came down.  But the fact that Kayutas was carrying her body later makes me wonder.

Yeah, the Dunyain are a cold-blooded lot.  Unless Kayutas inherited a larger portion of the mother than we know, I just don't see him carrying around a dead body on a battlefield.  And didn't she take some dead nonman ash?  Who KNOWS the limits to that stuff.

Survivors of the Ordeal
  1.  Achamian, Esmenet, Mimara, and baby.  Achamian, after receiving a mouthful of dead person ash, just hauls ass and doesn't look back.
  2.  Kayutas and Serwa.  Either with Achamian(I don't think so, but possible), the Mandate Grand Master, or (my crazy theory) they hide in Golgotterath while she regains her strength for the Meta-Gnostic.  Hiding where no one could possibly be?  Sounds pretty fuckin Dunyain to me.