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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Heramari Iyokus
« on: November 16, 2013, 06:33:44 pm »I lack evidence but I do think that the Sight of the Few, the Third Sight of the Cishaurim, and Mimara's Judging Eye are three distinct items.
Same here!
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I lack evidence but I do think that the Sight of the Few, the Third Sight of the Cishaurim, and Mimara's Judging Eye are three distinct items.
I think the "purity" of the Cishaurim work is a different sort of purity than the "purity of meaning" that I seem to recall is used somewhere to describe some Gnostic and or Quyan cants.
I like the "singing in tune" simile. The Cish are aware of and in tune with creation. Gnosis users don't listen at all, they just sing whatever they want, not giving a damn about even what kind of music is playing.
If the Gnosis is some kind of logic based geometric sorcery:
Consider that within a 3 dimensional plane , you can only define a point with 1 coordinate. i.e (x). This is a 1d "object".
I think this is, more or less, what the anagogic schools use. They are limited to defining 1d sorcerery. If they want to "make" something, they can only specify 1 thing at a time. For example, something's length, or somethings height, but not both. This makes their "meaning"(purity) unclear.
With 2 points, you may define 2 points. (x, y). With this, you can now make your meaning much more clear. You can define something's length and width, or its height and length.
This is where the Gnosis is. The Mandati, and others, use the innuteral to clarify what they want more accuratly.
With an additional innuteral (the Meta-Gnosis) you can more fully describe what you want.
As a crude example: An anagogic schoolman, a gnostic schoolman, and a meta-gnostic schoolman want to summon a red cube that is 10meters long per side.
The anagogic schoolman simply says: Summon cube! He gets a transparent cube thats 1 meter long.
The Gnostic schoolman says: Summon cube, but thinks in his mind Red. He gets a red cube thats 20 meters long.
The meta-gnostic schoolman says: Summon cube, thinks Red and 10meters. He gets a red cube that is 10 meters long.
Sorry for the extraordinarily lame example, but its easier for me to think about than simply "and innuteral makes it more pure, and a 2nd makes it more purer ".
I feel like I'm mostly just rambling now so I'll shutup.
It's hilarious to think about how easily Kellhus must have seen through Akka's attempted deception.
The second inutteral is only used for trans-location, that we have seen. If the meaning was pure, Serwe wouldn't be worried about detection. If anything, uniting three meanings into reality is going to leave a bigger, dirtier stain.
I think damnation points and Mark points are separate. Sorcery isn't the only way to be damned.
ETA: I believe that if you burn 7 tons of stone to cinders using the Fifth Quyan Whatnot, that could result in more Mark but fewer Damnation points than if you burn 3 tons of innocent people with the same Cant.
ETA2: Since the second option also involves murder of around 30-50 people, and I'm assuming murder gives Damnation point without affecting the Mark.
Fane developed the psukhe completely in the absence of knowledge of how anagogic and gnostic sorcery leverage changes to reality. Note that both of those forms of sorcery use two inutterals, which makes sense as they pin two interpretations of meaning to two frames of perception. By eliminating sight, Fane relied on one frame of perception (i.e. the onta) therefore one inutteral is enough to enforce sorcerous change. As a side effect it eliminates 99% of the dissonance and also the visible Mark.
Using a third inutteral is only mentioned in the context of the cant of translocation, and this seems like an obvious method of referencing two physical places against the metaphysical reality of the sorcerer. I believe its a question of leverage over power and that a third inutteral would serve no purpose in modifying most other cants.
Kelps, as usual, is more about subtlety. I see the second inutteral as giving him more precision in getting exactly what he wants from the Onta, not necessarily only raw power. If this is so, his Mark could very well be less pronounced than other sorcerers'.
11) Have used the dunyain mantra ("The logos is without beginning or end") to get through a bad mushroom trip.
Might be that the Mark doesn't reflect the power of the sorcerer as much as how long and much he has been practicing sorcery.
Not the difference in chorae effects on Akka between TDTCB and TJE. In both books a chorae is held in his face, in TDCTB it just freaks him out but in TJE he starts to salt.
Some other things to consider is that the "water" pouring from their forehead seems to be directly linked to their soul. One of the ciphrang at the end of TTT is able to yank a Cish's soul from his body just by grabbing onto the energy beam.
On the other hand, it could be possible to add an emotional/Psûkhe component to the Gnosis. Maybe that is what Titirga did.
Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, anyone think there are other sorcerous goodies Kellhus has Red-Bulled? I wonder about the Psukhe sometimes.
I believe that Moenghus never was able to see past the Circumfixtion. Based on that assumption, most (if not all) of TAE trillogy is Kellhus' work. However, sense there is no consensus on the matter, its difficult to continue.