Iëva [TUC Spoilers]

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H

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« on: May 01, 2015, 02:31:01 pm »
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         “My wife,” he groaned, testing the mettle of his chains for the first time. “Iëva!”

         “Has committed...” one of the ancient mouths warbled.

         “Such crimes...”

         “What was her price...” he coughed. “Tell me!”   

         “She sheeks only...” the bloody one bubbled.

         “To save her soul...”

This is a quote from Chapter 1 of TUC.  Indeed, it had me thinking of why did Iëva betray?  After reading that part, I thought she traded Nau-Cayûti for "salvation" but then I stumbled back upon one of Akka's dreams:

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Through closed eyes he watched her, Ieva, his wife of seven years, scurry naked to the cabinet across their spare room and produce a philtre, which she considered with an expression hung between terror and gloating. She turned to him, her face thin and cruel.
"How she will weep," she growled, "the filthy whore... And I will see it, and savour it, the breaking of her heart when she learns her beloved Prince has died in his wife's arms!"
He tried to call out as she leaned above him, holding the black tube with medicinal care. But he was sleeping and could not move.
"But you will not die, my heroic husband. Oh no! For I will fall upon your corpse, and I will wail-wail-wail, claiming to the Bull Heavens that you demanded to be buried rather than burned—like a Nonman!"
He tried to spit the foul liquid she poured between his teeth. He tried to reach up and out, seize her pale neck...
"Oh my husband!" she cried in a whisper. "My dear-dear husband! How could you not see the grudge I hold against thee? But you will know it, soon enough. When you are delivered, when you are beaten and broken—then you will know the compass of my spite!"

She doesn't seem very concerned with her soul here.  She seems very concerned with someone else, so I went back and dug up this:
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Then, in 2140, Nau-Cayûti’s beloved concubine, Aulisi, was abducted by Sranc marauders and taken to Golgotterath. According to The Sagas, Seswatha was able to convince the Prince (who was once his student) that she could be rescued from the Incû-Holoinas, and the two of them embarked on an expedition that is almost certainly apocryphal. Mandate commentators dispute the account found in The Sagas, where they successfully return with both Aulisi and the Heron Spear, claiming that Aulisi was never found. Whatever happened, at least two things are certain: the Heron Spear was in fact recovered, and Nau-Cayûti died shortly after (apparently poisoned by his first wife, Iëva).

So, the Mandate are almost certainly lying.  Aulisi did come back and seemingly, it drove Iëva to murder Nau-Cayûti.  Or did Aulisi directly drive Iëva to it?  Perhaps she was made into a sleeper agent?  Is that perhaps why the Mandate pretend she was never brought back from the Ark?

Also, it is clearly premeditated that she would deliver him to the Consult, by not allowing him to be burned, so there must be more than just vengeance toward Aulisi and Nau.  Perhaps the Consult offered her shelter from the damnation that would surely come from exacting such vengeance.

[crackpot]Lastly, possibly purely coincidental, but Aulisi's name is nearly an anagram of Aisralu from Four Revelations.  Interestingly enough, changing a U to an I.  Possibly a connection that Aulisi is part non-Man?  Is this why Iëva seems to angrily put "like a Nonman!" into her admonishment of Nau?[/crackpot]

Sound off and let me know how far off I am.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

profgrape

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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2015, 11:12:23 pm »
Good catch! 

While NC might have had more than one concubine, it would be really lame if the "filthy whore" Ieva refers to *isn't* Ausili.  So it makes sense that Ieva would trade her hated husband to the Consult in return for the means of avoiding the horrible consequences.

I'm not, however, convinced that it means she was rescued.  I always figured that the "disputes" were based on first-hand accounts from Seswatha's Dreams -- that's the only hidden knowledge the Mandate specifically would have. 

What if Ausili wasn't rescued but remained a prisoner of the Consult?  Then they offer Ieva not only the opportunity to kill her husband and avoid damnation, but also get to rub it in Ausili's face? 

Cold-blooded.

The Great Scald

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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 11:19:25 pm »
Why can't she have both of these as her motivations?

Maybe she was desperately looking for a way to save her soul for a long time, and then along comes the Consult bird-man and gives her a deal with the devil - she'll be saved from damnation if she poisons her husband and hands him over to Golgotterath. Maybe she's ambivalent about this whole thing at first...but when Nau-Cayuti comes home with his troo luv that he just rescued, totally neglecting his wife, it gives Ieva that final push. 

locke

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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 11:45:31 pm »
Clearly nc brought back a cunoroi female rather than his concubine, and elevated her above ieva.  The sagas confusedly combine the two, and ses is hiding the truth behind denial.

After all, her father did push her into the PIT. What else but golgotteroths well of the aborted?

The Great Scald

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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2015, 03:38:07 pm »
I suppose it's also a deconstruction of the heroic fairytale in its own way - Prince Charming sneaks into the lair of evil to rescue Rapunzel from the rape-aliens, but once they get home, the Princess gets jealous and hands him back to Golgotterath where he gets raped forever.

Clearly nc brought back a cunoroi female rather than his concubine, and elevated her above ieva.  The sagas confusedly combine the two, and ses is hiding the truth behind denial.

After all, her father did push her into the PIT. What else but golgotteroths well of the aborted?

Where is this "well of the aborted" thing from?

I've heard the phrase bandied around on this forum, but can't remember ever seeing it in the books.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2015, 08:12:29 pm »
I believe it is mentioned during Nau-Cayuti and Seswatha's journey into Golgotterath in TTT, but I could be wrong about.

No clue where the whole "her father pushed into her into the pit" part comes from, though...

mrganondorf

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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2015, 08:35:04 pm »
I suppose it's also a deconstruction of the heroic fairytale in its own way - Prince Charming sneaks into the lair of evil to rescue Rapunzel from the rape-aliens, but once they get home, the Princess gets jealous and hands him back to Golgotterath where he gets raped forever.

Clearly nc brought back a cunoroi female rather than his concubine, and elevated her above ieva.  The sagas confusedly combine the two, and ses is hiding the truth behind denial.

After all, her father did push her into the PIT. What else but golgotteroths well of the aborted?

Where is this "well of the aborted" thing from?

I've heard the phrase bandied around on this forum, but can't remember ever seeing it in the books.

"well of the aborted" is mentioned somewhere in the flashbacks of Ses and NC, so near end of TTT and i think in the same flashback where they take a bath from the lake in the Ark

love what you said about the subverted fairy tale

strange alternatives?

-Aulisi is the one who returned from Golgotterath, bringing with her the Heron Spear.  NC died in the attempt and Aulisi happened upon a helpless hopeless wizard on the way out

-Ieva needed to save her soul because she was a witch! 1. she craves power 2. she learns sorcery from the funny bird 3. plus bird can teach sorcery minus damnation (pending mog) 4. Ieva helps get rid of NC 5. mog dead 6. only way for Ieva to live on is to join with Shauriatus wad...

-Ieva is No-God.  Aulisi is No-God.  Nau-Cayuti and Aulisi are the No-God, both trapped inside the carapace which tortures and heals them, forcing them to stare in each other's eyes without blinking, both forced to learn minor cants to bruise their souls, both sealed inside just far enough from the external chorae so that they salt and heal continuously

mrganondorf

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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2015, 11:16:01 pm »
when NC and Ses get to the city within the Ark, wow there's a lot of humans in there.  the Consult will totally be able to breed huge populations of warriors and sorcerers and whatever else

H

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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 01:52:41 pm »
Well, if Aulisi didn't actually come back, why Iëva so intent upon having her see he with Nau at his funeral?  If she was still at the Ark, she wouldn't see her until much later and there'd be no reason to say that as such.

I admit, I am prone to read far into the nuances of speech, so I probably often draw the straws from essentially little...
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 03:28:35 am »
Just because Aulisi didn't come back, doesn't mean Ieva won't see her again. Ieva is in contact with the Consult, if Aulisi is still held prisoner, she can see her despair in Golgotterath, or wherever it is they rendezvous. Ieva never says when/where she will see Aulisi's heart break, only  that she will weep when she learns [note not sees] that he "died in his wife's arms". That thought just gets tied up in "I will wail-wail-wail" which is also not technically at the funeral but probably in the bedroom the next day, but these are separated by paragraphs and can, and I think should, be considered separately.

This knits together both timelines.

As for Shae tell him what her price was, he probably just gave him the answer that would be at once most confusing and most hurtful.
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H

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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 11:29:02 am »
I think that is fair analysis and also the most probable explanation.

One question though would be, what is the meaningfulness of the disagreement between the Saga, claiming Aulisi returned and the Mandate, claiming she did not?

The most simple explanation would probably be that the Sagas just want Nau to seem more heroic.  I can't help but feel there is more too it though.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

profgrape

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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 07:11:14 pm »
There's only one other mention of a a dispute between the Sagas and and Mandate scholars:

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At the Battle of Skothera, the Sranc hordes are crushed by General En-Kaujalau, though he died of mysterious causes within weeks of this victory (according to The Sagas, he was another victim of Iëva and her poisons, but again this is disputed by Mandate scholars)

This seems like another case of embellishment on the part of The Sagas' authors, except in this case, it was to make Iëva seem even more villainous.  Again, the Mandate know better via the Dreams.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2015, 02:39:40 am »
Maybe the Mandate didn't lie. Maybe the dreams they received were wrong on this instance.

Is Seswatha censoring dreams?

Wilshire

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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2015, 12:52:05 pm »
The most simple explanation would probably be that the Sagas just want Nau to seem more heroic.  I can't help but feel there is more too it though.

...This seems like another case of embellishment on the part of The Sagas' authors, except in this case, it was to make Iëva seem even more villainous.

I tend towards thinking that their Sagas, which are purported as history, read more like The Odyssey or the Bible.

Maybe the Mandate didn't lie. Maybe the dreams they received were wrong on this instance.

Is Seswatha censoring dreams?
I find this possibility terrifying.
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Darzin

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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2015, 08:40:40 am »
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Maybe the Mandate didn't lie. Maybe the dreams they received were wrong on this instance.

Is Seswatha censoring dreams?

I tend to think that something we think we know is terribly wrong. So much of what we know from the dreams and the Isphyrus comes from one source Seswatha. If some of that wasn't edited I would be shocked. With Akka's new dreams I fully expect some of the sagas to be vindicated.

"he who controls the past, controls the future." 
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