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Wicked avatar, Centurion.

"'He dies from the outside,' Cleric said, 'because Hell sustains him from within.'
'CUNNING...' the Wracu groaned from the black. 'CUNNING-CUNNING ISHROI!'
'I have seen this before,' Nil'giccas said, peering after the thing. He turned to the old Wizard and smiled. 'I remember'" (WLW, p864).

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'I have seen this before,' Nil'giccas said, peering after the thing. He turned to the old Wizard and smiled. 'I remember'" (WLW, p864).

What exactly was it that he as seen before.. What does he remember!
Reminds me of the circle of bodies in Golgotterath.

What about the IF? Hell sustains from within...

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what is Pandora's Box but a bottle full of hell?

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Not just reminiscing about wracu hunting with Seswatha?

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Yeah, I'd figure that they've fought Wutteat before. Is Wutteat a piece of Hell, drawn from the Outside?

I thought we'd kind of concluded that he was either a robot or from Cybertron.

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Yeah, I'd figure that they've fought Wutteat before. Is Wutteat a piece of Hell, drawn from the Outside?

I thought we'd kind of concluded that he was either a robot or from Cybertron.

I believe the descriptions are purposefully misleading, but that because I want my dragon to be a dragon I'd guess.

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Nah the descriptions are extremely clear, he's mechanical, but the viewpoints have no conception of machines of that class.  They think of machines as wooden contraptions like trebuchets, not a flying weaponized artifact.

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The discriptions are clearly (extremely) metaphorical [why do you use such words when you know they are just used to control?]. The dragon is described in terms of bronze and iron (in the coffers and in the mansion, and in the dreams). The people of Earwa have these kinds of materials and are probably the only kinds of materials that can represent how the dragon looks in their own words. Dragons, in most fantasy, tend to have shiny scales that could easily look like worked metal (bronze or copper if you want it shiny). Not to mention its huge so using more mundane terms, like flesh, probably just doesn't do the trick.

Really though, stating that it is obvious doesn't help you out much (or make it true), just makes you seem unwilling to believe anothers interpretation, and makes you look close minded.

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They do mention that dragons never stop growing.  In that case, can Wutteat be mechanical?

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Wutteat is not a stand-in for Wracu. He is the template - whatever Wutteat is, the Wracu are but biological impressions, like the Sranc are of the Nonmen.

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Is that made clear in the Sauglish chapter in WLW, or is that speculation because of the description of the "iron bones", etc.?

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R. Scott Bakker interview (part 2)[/b]:

Wutteat is the prototype, the genotypical template the Inchoroi used to spawn the Wracu. In a sense, he is no more ‘another dragon’ than the original 1889 prototype for the metre in Sevres, France is another metre.

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Here's the relevant bit from WLW:

The shadows cast by intervening columns were absolute, so only fragments of the beast could be seen. Horned ridges. Wings folded into scarred curtains. Scales like overlapping shields, pale with filth and bronze. A single nostril weeping smoke.

The beast was old, Achamian realized. Exceedingly old. Wracu never stopped growing, so it stood to reason that any dragon he encountered in his waking life would dwarf the ancient monstrosities from his Dreams …

But this.

Wings that could have tarped the Shilla Amphitheatre in faraway Aöknyssus. A torso broad enough to hull the largest Cironji carrack, yet long enough to coil about the small mountain of treasure and ruin. Were it to rear onto its hind legs, the beast would stand as tall as any of the Mop’s unnatural trees.

followed by a nice moment of humor:

“This …” Cleric murmured, his gaze fixed on the slumbering beast. “This is where I am meant to die.”

“You and my loincloth,” Achamian replied.

The Nonman turned to him, his face blank and wondering. A vagrant pain seemed to seize his expression. Then Nil’giccas, King of the Last Mansion, laughed. The sound boomed through the hollows, a cackle that rolled like thunder, deep and earthen and utterly— insanely— unafraid. Achamian grimaced more than smiled. “Ah … Seswatha,” Cleric said, swallowing his mirth. “How I cherish your wi—”

I love that Cleric addresses him as Seswatha, looks right through him.

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+1 Willem. I'd call that us projecting onto some ambiguous text in the other descriptions... however, certainly we can hazard from the text and interview that Wutteat is not a product of the Tekne, while other Wracu are?

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we can hazard from the text and interview that Wutteat is not a product of the Tekne, while other Wracu are?

Pretty sure in WLW Wutteat himself says that the Inchoroi found him floating in the void. So unless there was some kind of wormhole timetravel nonsense, I'd say its a good assumption that the Father of all Dragons is not the Inchoroi's creation.

What if the Wracu were/are mechanical and made of metal, while Wutteat actually is not, but past experiences make Akka think in terms of what he saw in Seswatha's past? Or vice-versa (though a bit harder to justify), Father is metal, Wracu are flesh. Those situations would certainly lead to some confusion.

Every time dragons are described (I should find those and quote it directly) they always use similar words. Even though Wutteat is the template, the same descriptions come around. Iron, bronze, portcullis, etc.

I'll look for it later today. A dream near the beginning WP (beginning of a chapter as well), and in the depths of Cil they see a dragon skeleton. Any other places that anyone can remember?