Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Cynical Cat

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 16
The Unholy Consult / Re: TUC Reviews
« on: August 22, 2017, 11:15:26 am »
A new one at:

frigid's a friend and I pushed Scott Bakker pretty hard at him.  He's got a fairly broad body of reviews so you may find a fair amount of interest there.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 20, 2017, 01:37:18 pm »
This is all complicated somewhat by Mimara looking at a Chorae with the Judging Eye and seeing it as actually divine after all. So maybe "Tear of God" is not just an epithet coined by ignorant fools who don't recognise a sorcerous artefact when they see one. Did the exiled Aporetic Quya who allied with the Inchoroi accidentally create something thaumaturgical rather than sorcerous?

I don't think an explanation for how Chorae work that treats them as purely sorcerous items will be able to resolve all these issues.

It's further complicated by the fact that its not merely the chorae, its the chorae being wielded by a woman with the Judging Eye in the face of hell.  We know there are moral dimensions (in the eyes of the Outside) to the use of sorcery.  By being a sorcerous artifact that undoes sorcery, chorae could be inherently holy in the same way that women are less than men and pigs are unclean. 

The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: August 20, 2017, 06:53:15 am »
I unreservedly love the books.  War is not antiseptic and clean with the victory of the righteous preordained.  It is, almost always, suffering and horror with the iron gears of circumstances chewing up men and nations.  That Bakker can incorporate these terrible and frequently brushed over truths into his works while also including gripping action, awesome sorcery, and profound courage is one of his great strengths as a writer. 

Victory was never assured.  Ninety-five percent of fiction tells us that, but we all know that there is a finger on the scale.  No noble sacrifice will be futile, no courageous deed will be easily undone, evil will not triumph over good, Sauron is always defeated, and fallen heroes always end up in the undying lands.  Free will matters, the main characters are heroes, not pawns.  That is the expectation.  Normal, easy, safe.  The lie that we want to be told.

Bakker dares to betray Proyas and show us that in the heart of the man who will save us from genocide there is room for only one other person.  He dares to actually unleash the Second Apocalypse that is foretold.  The savior is not merely hollow, he is a lie.  Tremendous sacrifice results in heartbreaking failure and the unleashing of the very evil it sought to forestall.  How often does fiction dare to walk that road?  Forget all of Bakker's skills as a writer and world builder, how can you not admire the courage?

As for the Second Apocalypse, it should be heartbreaking.  The tale of how it came to pass should be tragic and powerful.  It would be obscene if it wasn't.  But it isn't over.  The First Apocalypse was over come.  The success of the second is not assured.  Drusas Achaiman walks in Seswatha's footsteps and with him is the Holy Empress and the true prophet.  The Black Gate has opened and the army of Mordor has poured forth, but the White City has yet to fall.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 19, 2017, 01:31:34 pm »
Chorae are a product of Nonmen sorcery and it is based on language and meanings.  The Aporos was a school based on negation.  Chorae are the negation of sorcery and by extension, the negation of sorcerers.  Not of the Outside, for they were useless against the wight in the topos, but sorcery.  That they work on the Psukhe and kill Psukharim (albeit in a slightly different manner) combined with the fact that there have been Psukhe practitioners before Fane is clearly indicative the Psukhe is a form of nonlinguistic sorcery.  All indications are that the truth or falsehood on Fanim beliefs is not related to the effectiveness of the Psukhe.

As for Kellhus's predictions about the Psukhe, we have very good reason to believe them.  They are not only the product of Dunyain reasoning and observation, but the product of the teachings of Drusas Achaiman and the accumulated knowledge of the Mandate.  The person he was speaking to was the same Drusas Achaiman, Mandate Sorcerer of Rank, and he found Kellhus's explanation compelling. 

The Unholy Consult / Re: Zaudunyanicon Q&A
« on: August 18, 2017, 11:59:15 am »

It can't be a real influence if Bakker wasn't aware of whatever that thing is, but that doesn't mean one can't make the argument that there are similarities and parallels even though Bakker didn't put them there intentionally.

Not to say he is or isn't a 40k guy or any of the rest, I don't know, but whether the parallels are there and whether or not Bakker intended them to be are entirely separate questions in my mind. I often struggle when I don't separate those two ideas.

Warhammer, in all its incarnations, steals liberally from a variety of sources ranging from Dune's Navigators to Sumerian gods.  The broad base of source material means Warhammer has similarities with a wide array of works, especially those who tap into the same source material.

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:17:32 am »
Like Akka, Serwa bears Sethwatha within and with it his resistance to being compelled as well as her Dunyain abilities.  The Lord Torturer has never subjected such a person to his torments and compulsions nor has he ever seen the effects of the collar on such a person.  Once she is able to unleash sorcery, it is going to of war cants of someone who can wield the Metagnosis and it will be unleashed on a court that is literally tearing itself apart.

The Unholy Consult / Re: Cu'jara/Ku'jara?
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:09:14 am »
A point is made that most scholars transliterate names into Sheyic, thus leaving giving us both the original spellilng and names and the Sheyic spellings.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 17, 2017, 10:07:31 am »
There is no explicit confirmation that Kellhus is right, but it is the only theory presented to us on how the Psukhe operates other than "the Solitary God makes it so."  It gets further indirect confirmation when Kellhus confronts Moenghus and they discuss Moenghus's weakness in bearing Water, but his ability with workings requiring precision over strength. 

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] The Loose Ends
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:57:55 am »
They do have no mark but 1) we've had a good explanation for why that it works in TTT that doesn't involve the accuracy of their beliefs and 2) we've been told that their have been others who have used the Psukhe before the advent of Fane.  So buying into the Fanim being right because their sorcery works has always been a palace built on air.

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 16, 2017, 01:03:37 am »
It's more likely that it failed because its means of operation is to inflict unbearable pain so the subject can't concentrate.  That's going to be more, not less, effective against the second inutteral.  It probably failed because of Serwa's ability to disassociate from the pain, the same ability that allowed her sing to her torturers and fight a dragon while covered in three degree burns.

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 15, 2017, 10:26:39 am »
While it does say that there is no outwards difference in appearance between male and female Sranc that are readily apparent, this isn't the same as saying they are outwardly identical down to the genitalia.  It does mean that male and female Sranc will have the same height, build, and colouration.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]QUESTION: Mimara's Child/Children
« on: August 14, 2017, 10:00:02 pm »
The Boding occurs after Mimara gives birth.  She's giving birth prematurely to twins in far from ideal conditions.  That one of them would be stillborn is far from unlikely.

The Unholy Consult / Re: Merchandising the Second Apocalypse
« on: August 10, 2017, 11:54:22 am »

Btw, if you are interested, you should check out Malazan, one of the books fairly drips with the stuff (Reaper's Gale I believe).

Now *there's* a series which disappeared up its own arse. Read all the Erikson main sequence ones, which were excellent up to book 5, then increasingly self - indulgent until the end.  The Esslemont ones were just dreadful.

My opinion isn't quite as harsh, but I otherwise agree.

Forgot about good ol' Malowebi. That is indeed a horrible fate. Especially if he is trapped in that head for years upon years.

It's a horrible fate in a reality where Hell isn't an alternative.  Time spent trapped in that head is time not spent in Hell. 

Proyas and Saubon are both representative of everyone Kellhus has analyzed, exploited, used, and discarded.  Proyas is self righteous and judgemental but he's also the man who would take no more water than his men when dying of thirst in the desert and shows compassion for the weak while much of Saubon's damage is from being raised by an abusive father and being haunted by the need to try and measure up to the harsh standards of a wicked tyrant.  The accomplish great things and, like everyone else, are discarded without thought or gratitude the moment it is advantageous to do so.

It's probably a cold blooded risk-reward calculation.  Kellhus knows that there's got to be a big topos there, but the advantages of having a bunch of powerful Ciphrang ravage the outer works is worth risking the loss of some of his Daimotic Schoolmen.  He is throwing the dice for all the marbles.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 16