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Messages - Francis Buck

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166
The No-God / Re: Möenghus The Younger. Consult or Humanity?
« on: January 11, 2018, 07:18:44 pm »
Moenghus Jr. became one of my favorite characters as TAE went on and especially with TUC when we get his POV (and especially since so many other characters are now dead).

I feel relatively certain Moe will be "for the Consult" given the somewhat heavy foreshadowing (as far as RSB goes) of the Shroud forming a halo around his head, but it could really go either way. I do think that if he's "for the Consult" it will be for his own reasons, and I also can't see Moe sticking with them if/when he learns they're being run by a bunch of Dunyain.

My ideal scenario I guess is Moe leading the Scylvendi against "the good guys" for most of TNG with a redemptive heel turn at the end. I actually think Moe Jr could in some way be a part of Moenghus Sr's posthumous planning/conditioning of events via Cnaiur -- possibly laying seeds early on to ensure (or at least make viable) a scenario where the Scylvendi don't align with the Consult this time around.

Ultimately I'm split because I really like Moe and want him not have a horribly depressing ending, but I also REALLY want battles with Men vs Men in TNG, cuz Sranc/Bashrag hordes kinda got old for me even before we got to TUC, and unless some surprise faction ends up working with the Consult (Zeum?) then I can't see too much human in-fighting being plausible on a large scale given that it's the damn apocalypse.

167
General Misc. / Re: [!STAR WARS SPOILERS!] The Last Jedi
« on: January 10, 2018, 04:52:26 am »
I actually thought I mentioned that in my post but apparently I forgot -- the lack of a proper Luke lightsaber battle is fucking criminal. Instead we get this weird cocktease with a damn slow-mo Matrix-dodge. I have nothing against slow-mo in movies whatsoever, but it's not something I ever wanted in Star Wars. Call me a purist, but I like that the series has (had) little idiosyncracies that became "how Star Wars movies are". Even the flashback ruffled my feathers, though I think I could have dealt with that if served more than feeling like a shoe-horned twist.

And here's the thing -- I actually would have been FINE with the lack of a Luke vs Someone lightsaber battle if they had actually approached Luke's character in a different/better way. For example I'm one of the people who (retrospectively) dislikes that Yoda ever used a lightsaber, as it seemed beneath his character. But given the plot we did actually get, a good Luke vs Kylo fight (even if it ended with Luke doing the Obi-Wan-Kenobi "strike me down" trick) would've been...well, something.

@Wilshire
Your point about only light side users being capable of Force ghosting is interesting and along with the Sith-culture stuff is really the kind of shit I was hoping to see more of -- specifically, the lack any actual "Sith training" is an insane missed oppturtunity IMO, and could've been a cool way to flesh out the Sith and/or Dark side in general, while also serving as a sort of inverted version of Luke and Yoda in TESB.

I was also one of the people who (before the rumor was dispelled) would've actually not minded a Snoke-as-Plagueis twist. Despite the prequels being generally very poor movies, I do feel like there should be a little more continuity between trilogies. Beyond that, the notion of a reincarnating/immortal Force user whose been manipulating the galactic society for decades Dunyain-style has some potential in my mind (assuming it had, like, good writing and not another cackling, cartoonishly evil Big Bad), and it could've even helped handwave some of the series extant weird plot holes and/or lazy worldbuilding such as the similarity of the First Order to the Empire, or even why Kylo would decide to be trained by such an individual, given his Vader fanboyism.

Speaking of villains, the portrayal of Hux was borderline character assassination. I mean he wasn't anything amazing in TFA per se, but again, like Finn (or Rey, or Snoke) the character had plenty of potential for growth. Instead he became a receptacle for corny humor (because there wasn't enough of that already).

168
The Crabikiad / Re: Crabby Fails
« on: January 09, 2018, 12:27:47 am »
Crab has captured our imaginations ( well, at least mine, but from context of others discussions I'll extend it to the group as a whole ). Bakker left it so wide open, his significance could be damn near anything from almost nothing to the savior of the world. He is genetically Dunyain - just don't know what the significance of that if not Dunyain raised ... but he was Dunyain raised ( i.e. raised by a Dunyain ), just not by a society of Dunyain ... again, not sure what that will mean. I've ( bragged? ) about not having expectations about the next books, but I am excited about what will become of our little uber-man. The implications/possibilities are so cool, I do hope it's something wild/impactful. You're suggesting he's not Dunyain? I say he is, but as with any transplant, can't say for sure what he'll specifically be given his "upbringing" wasn't classic Dunyain. Will he leverage disparate psychological prowess over others? I think so, but in a unique way with a unique flavor ( Bakker gives us clues he's got game ). So I guess the answer to your query is, sorta.

And to add, the Dunyain "tests" are highly suspect in my book in regards to their "accuracy" of detecting defectives - at least I would likely disagree with their aims/conclusions. Just because someone ain't quick on anything ( thought/speed ), that doesn't preclude them from an achievement that dwarfs all others. So labeling him defective means little to me as to his capabilities. I suspect the Dunyain inadvertently selected for weaknesses they might have not known about because of it. Additionally, we now get to see how a Dunyain will develop in the outside world, bypassing the trauma of exposure to it at a late age - the world does a good job of challenge/growth/vetting people, who knows what they miss by that lack of exposure. Could be the stuff of legends. And for all we know the bar for defective could be quite low and they're measuring in millimeters, the cat could well not be all that different from his ancestors/brothers. "ooooh, you missed 1 question out of the 143,968 questions on the test, fuck you, you're dead".

One last thing ( apologies for all the edits, I'm multi-tasking, but your post lured me in ) ... are you asking if he can fill the shoes of a Dunyain or will he be sociopathological as a Dunyain? That will be interesting to see how much of that is genetic selection vs environment/upbringing ... I don't know ( yet ).

I agree with this by and large. As powerful as the Dunyain are, it seems clear at this stage of the series (to me, anyway) that much of what made the Dunyain so special came at the cost of numerous things, mainly being extremely vulnerable upon leaving Ishual and also their naivete of the World in general (a perfect barricade is also perfect blindness).

I also think that the entire Ansaurimbor lineage has the "defect" of being prone to love (this is just my random headcanon at the moment), even including Kellhus to a degree.Taking Kellhus as an example, he has numerous moments of fleeting passions (almost always with regard to Esmenet), and I also think that Kellhus is totally genuine with Proyas when he says "he isn't sure he's even capable of love".

Basically, I think Kellhus (and other Dunyain, maybe in particular the Ansaurimbor) does experience something akin to "love", it's just much different from the way human experiences it, and furthermore Kellhus himself (and probably most other pure-blooded Dunyain) would contextualize the experience in a completely different way. When Kellhus tells Emsi that she is his "only darkness, and the only place he can hide", I think that's basically Dunyain-speak for love-as-known-by-a-Dunyain.

However, I also think a major point of the series is to attempt dispell the notion that things like love, compassion, empathy, etc. are "weaknesses" or flaws of some kind. And that's where I think Crabicus will come into play -- due his unique upbringing and early exposure to the World, I think he may end up being the most  "balanced" of the Dunyain, in terms of combining all the superhuman faculties without losing sight of the HUMAN part of superhuman.

I could also see Crabby becoming the new version of Inri Sejenus. Somewhere in PON, Kellhus mentions how Inri came after the Second Apocalypse, when the World's wounds were in need of mending, while Kellhus himself came before in order to make Men more warlike (which he did end up following through on, even if it ultimately was not enough).

Given that Crabby also has the insights learned from his pops (which I think are legit), and given the theme of love/compasson/etc. not always being the weaknesses, it seems liable that Crabby may end up reforming religions and so forth, perhaps one that is truer to the actual metaphysics at work.

Ultimately I think the series was always intended to have Dunyain fighting on both sides of the spectrum -- the Mutilated, who represent a Dunyain that has quashed all human feelings in pursuit of their goals, and the others such as Serwa, Kayutas, Crabicus, and so forth (ironically even Kelmomas, as it turned out, though he "matured" a bit too late it would seem) who have enough humanity left in themselves to actually care about the survival of the species. 

169
The Unholy Consult / Re: Did Kellhus find Oblivion?
« on: January 08, 2018, 06:03:31 am »
I thought that there were other Gods who can save souls.

My assumption on this is that while other Gods are able to save souls, Gilgaol and Yatwer can trump any of them, thus "saving" (or "seizing") whatever souls they wish. This sort of makes sense given that Yatwer (birth, life) and Gilgaol (war, death) are at the top of the metaphysical foodchain, and serve as the ultimate gears of the cosmic engine that keeps the cycle of souls running -- the same cycle which the No-God is intended to interrupt.

170
The Unholy Consult / Re: Did Kellhus find Oblivion?
« on: January 07, 2018, 10:04:40 pm »
I don't think Kellhus found Oblivion, nor was he seeking it. I think Kellhus may well have been saved, possibly by Gilgaol, since only War and Birth can seize apparently (and Kellhus basically did nothing but wage war from the time he left Ishual up to his death). In addition, when he looked up at the Inverse Fire, he did say that he was already saved.

All that being said, I also think there's some difficulty in interpretation regarding the Gods and how humans can become their "vessel". I think it may be erroneous to imagine that possession by a God somehow "overrides" the actual individual being possessed. Rather, I think that being a vessel for a God is the result of someone acting/thinking in a way that aligns with the motivations of the character and the God equally.

Taking Cnaiur for example, who we know to be both a Ciphrang and ultimately a vessel for Ajokli -- his final scene and dialogue make sense regardless of whether you imagine it to be Ajokli or Cnaiur. The same sort of thing applies to Kellhus in the Golden Room, or even Psatma as Yatwer. When Kellhus returns to Momemn and confronts Psatma, he speaks to her and references her as if it were in fact just Yatwer (calling her his sister, the line about how "even eternity can be blind" or whatever). This also plays pretty well with the themes of souls "feeling in control" even then there's a clear puppet master -- be it a worldly one like a Dunyain, or the Cants of Compulsion, or being a Vessel for a God. Kellhus even points this out to Kelmomas in TUC when he mentions how Kelmomas can't distinguish between whether it's himself or Samarmas who is currently speaking/in control.

On a whole separate note, the nature of Ajokli is strange even according to what we know about the Gods. He is at times their adversary and also their companion. He has many, many dominions, including both murder and deception, game-playing, mischief, etc. Not to mention the symbolism of four Horns, Ajokli's claim that the Ark is "his place", the new glossary entry about the Ark being the Halved-Crown of Ajokli, etc...

I do think it's possible that Ajokli is, in fact, the God of Gods, or that Ajokli is Seswatha, or both (the idea of making a pact with the pit and attaining temporal power and so forth fits pretty well with what Seswatha seemingly is/does...but then the same could be said of Shaeonanra and Shauriatas).

Ultimately I think we just don't have enough information to really know yet. I mean look at the list of entities/God-like beings we currently have and who are seemingly all different from each other, while also sharing a number of qualities.

The World
The God of Gods
The Ark
The No-God
The Zero-God
The Meta-God
Ajokli
Seswatha
Shauriatas


That's a long list, and I'd be pretty surprised if there was not some degree of "collapsing" among the above entities, and it's just two or three different forces that are being interpreted differently by the characters, or perhaps are themselves different "stages" of the same force/entity.

If I had to guess, I would say that Shauriatas is the Will of the Ark, and that the Ark simply possesses whoever is at its helm, so to speak. Of course, given the blindness of souls to their own movements as I mentioned above, those possessed by the Ark/Shauriatas do not realize they are possessed.

The God of Gods is apparently blind to the No-God as much as anyone, and given that Ajokli seems to be blind to the No-God as well to some degree, there may be a correlation here.

The World seems to trump everything, and Bakker has described Earwa as a "self-moving world" -- and I also think that this is the sentient entity that is the Judging Eye, or the Zero-God.

The Meta-God, who has only been mentioned a single time, is IMO either a different term for the World, or perhaps a term for Seswatha (and, again, I could see the Meta-God being the World being Seswatha).

Then again, the No-God itself seems to genuinely be the Absolute, given that it stands "outside the outside" and even the God of Gods cannot see it, which would ALSO fit in with the title "Meta-God" (a God that is above the God of Gods).

In conclusion, I have no idea.

171
General Misc. / Re: [!STAR WARS SPOILERS!] The Last Jedi
« on: January 01, 2018, 01:28:17 am »
Honestly, the more I think about it the more disappointed I become.

I've loved Star Wars since childhood, was the perfect age when the prequels came out (was probably 8 or 9 when The Phantom Menace hit) in that I was able to enjoy them just for being SW movies and was not old enough to detect the flaws -- though I started feeling it by the time Revenge of the Sith came out. Regardless, this series looms larger in my life/memory than perhaps any other popular media, in terms of nostalgia and so forth. And there are certain things even from the prequels (Duel of the Fates) that to this day can give me goosebumps like nothing else. So yeah, I'm a pretty big fan, if perhaps not quite a "fanboy" or whatever.

When news that a new trilogy with the old cast was being made, it was borderline tear-inducing. As was the first teaser for TFA. For whatever reason, I'd just assumed that it would never happen and that I'd never see Luke Skywalker played by Mark Hamil on the big screen again. When TFA I came out I went in with measured hype, having been through enough of such experiences to be keep my expectations in check. Somewhat to my surprise, TFA exceeded my expectations -- it wasn't a perfect movie by any means, and it definitely stuck a bit too close to the ANH formula, but it otherwise succeeded handsomely in what is was trying to achieve. It actually FELT like a Star Wars movie, I liked all the new cast members, and Kylo Ren in particular was already the most nuanced villain in a Star Wars movie thus far. I went out of the theater genuinely satsifed and very excited to see where things would go from here. That was only amplifie when I learned that Rian Johnson, literally one of my favorite directors, was announced to do TLJ. Beforehand, were you to ask me who I'd like to direct it, I'd probably have said RJ. It was a dream come true, so I thought...

In contrast to how I felt walking out of TFA, or I walked out of TLJ wondering what exactly I'd just seen. I knew that I wasn't feeling it, but it was a long movie with a lot of scenes and I was still (and still am) absorbing it. But later that night as I kept thinking about it, I realized that I actually don't really even care that much about the next movie. I'll certainly see it, and I'd love to be surprised by how it turns out, but TLJ in my opinion did more damage to the series than any of the prequels (though I would not say that this was a worse movie than them).

There are many issues I have with the film, almost all of them regaring character development and the incoherence of the plot, as well some of the "expansions" to the lore and worldbuilding, but honestly it all comes down to Luke and Rey. I'm utterly baffled at the decisions made to the depiction of Luke -- I mean, I think I get what the premise was for the character at his stage, but the execution of it was so sloppy and off-putting that it ruins what potential was there, which is actually the case for almost everything about the movie. I think the film is brimming with great ideas, yet almost none of them hit the mark. The only characters I felt were actually well done with a coherent arc and journery are Poe, Leia, and to some extent Kylo, who remains IMO the most compelling new element of the entire trilogy. Furthermore, there's such a palpable sense of dissonance between where TFA left off, and where this movie decided to go, that it gives the impression that there is not, in fact, any sort of game plan for the series at all (which to my knowledge is not actually the case).

My biggest issue aside from Luke's depiction and characterization is that this film BARELY progressed the characters past where they were in TFA. Finn for example, who was probably the second most compelling character in TFA for me, had almost no meaningful development whatsoever. It's almost like you could learn everything you need to know from the opening text crawl of the next movie without feeling lost at all.

I do agree with what many have said, which is that it seems like the movie was preoccupied with going in unexpected directions for the series (a sentinment I'm 100% on board with, by the way) that it forgot to make sure those directions led to satisfying conclusions, nor even produce a competent film in general. It feels like a collection of wasted oppurtunities and good ideas that are not properly executed.

I'm actually more excited for whatever Rian Johson's other SW trilogy is going to be (assuming he still gets the job) than I am for the next film. I think that if the trilogy is fully separated from the main series (perferably by being something akin to KotoR, set in the ancient history of the SW universe), then they could be great. I already know RJ is an excellent director and writer, and TLJ is the only movie of his I don't love, so I still have hopes for getting good stories in the SW universe, even if I'm mildly heartbroken about this installment.

172
General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: December 27, 2017, 06:42:13 pm »
Thank you guys very much! Wish I could say the simplicity was planned and I was shooting for a minimalistic style but...I wasn't lol, just kinda came out that way. Architecture (or rather environments in general) are not my strong suit -- much prefer creatures and such. The amount of time I spent on Skuthula is probably over twice that of what it took me to do the entire rest of the picture, so it's obvious where interests lay. That being said I was pleased with how the "atmosphere" turned out overall, particularly the sense of light coming in from the left into the dark on the right where Skuthula's lurking. You would think that was something I planned out but, lol...nope. After fucking with filters for long enough at some point it looked like that and I said "cool I'm done". 

173
Philosophy & Science / Re: Gods as Topological Invariants
« on: December 25, 2017, 12:48:00 am »
This is the best fucking thing ever. Thank you Tleilaxu for posting, much obliged.

174
General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: December 23, 2017, 11:58:39 pm »
"Only the wicked burn on this day!"


175
Philosophy & Science / Re: Cognitive Bias Cheat Sheet
« on: December 03, 2017, 04:08:58 am »
This is amazing. I wanted a good reference for a while now, both for self-improvement but also trying to get better characterization in my writing.

I like to attribute specific cognitive biases to characters that are appropriate to their personality and the narrative, etc., but the list of specific biases that I actually know about off the top of my head is pretty short.

Also kinda funny since, as a borderline wikipedia-addict, I've tried using the page on cognitives biases before as a cheat sheet, but as the article say it's not the most complete or intuitive. This one's great.


176
Philosophy & Science / Re: Do Elephants Have Souls?
« on: November 23, 2017, 01:46:31 am »
They certainly do in Anthropica ;)

This is a good one, will be very useful.

177
Oooh this is awesome. Three-Body Problem rivals Blindsight as one of my favorite SF novels ever and also one of the most enlightening/frightening explorations of how alien contact could go south in ways totally unexpected and unrelated to "aliens are bad and just wanna kill everybody". In fact Three-Body Problem maybe even more-so than Blindsight, as the issues potentially stemming from relativity are ones that are basically inevitable if mankind is ever to colonize interstellar space. Don't even need the aliens for shit to get real hairy right off the bat.

178
Philosophy & Science / Re: The Brain with David Eagleman
« on: November 08, 2017, 01:48:23 am »
Cool, will definitely check these out.

I'm interested in teasing out these thoughts with you, BFK. I feel like they've come up in a number of separate contemporary threads.
Another question: If you/we don't have Free Will, then why do we wish we do? What is the evolutionary purpose for wanting a Free Moving Soul? The fact the idea is so disturbing that we may not have Free Will is evidence that we do.

My totally unsubstantiated 2cents is that it comes down to how/when exposure to the idea occurs. When the idea or at least the science behind the idea is so new and such a shift from convention, it's gonna be disturbing no matter what it is, at least to a certain portion of the population -- particularly when it flies in the face of everything you've been told your whole life. For example, the notion of evolution was enough to shake people's beliefs 150ish years ago, hell it still is for many folks (often people of faith but not necessarily), and I imagine that lacking free will is just as -- if not more -- disturbing for many, many individuals for similar reasons. For whatever reason, I was introduced to the idea of free will at the age and during the right time of my life that the concept in-and-of-itself has never shook me the way it clearly has for others -- although the ramifications of our collective "darkness that comes before" is much more tangibly frightening to myself, particularly given the way technology is growing, with a very big goal for many people being the creation of artificial intelligence. The idea of that doesn't intrinsically bother me by itself, but rather the lack of other people who take it seriously is what disturbs me. We need more folks other than Elon Musk warning people of the potential disasters that could occur by making an A.I. even slightly more intelligent than we are -- and really, we don't even need something smarter than us to royally fuck shit up, just something with enough power and the wrong motivations. It'd be nice to have a working theory of consciousness BEFORE going down that rabbit hole, but it feels a little like the two are racing neck-and-neck at this stage.

179
The No-God / Re: Perspective and answers to open questions
« on: October 30, 2017, 02:03:12 am »
Ah, the Cipher of Serwe...

Considering most of Earwa (which is full of naive, ignorant people) is Damned, the idea that Serwe is also -- unfairly -- Damned, does not strike me as an unrealistic possibility.

My thoughts? In the Circumfix, Serwe was the Jesus figure, and Kellhus was her Prophet, not the other way around as most presume.

Afterall, the one miracle in the series occurred there, and it was SERWE's --no Kellhus's -- heart that Kellhus inexplicably retrieved, the blood dripping from it literally cracking the ground.

Wonder whatever happened to that heart...

180
Philosophy & Science / Re: The Great Nutrient Collapse
« on: October 28, 2017, 09:31:47 pm »
So the World does conspire...

Anybody up for starting a Consult?

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