Meppa is X (II)

  • 207 Replies
  • 102303 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5935
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2014, 07:12:55 pm »
"as much as possible" lol. That would be so many babies. Thats like impregnating a different woman per 1-3 days, per schoolman.

Maybe a mandate for Swayali to breed with the most intelligent schoolmen as much as possible would be more feasible. And then every woman with the ability to see the Onta required to join their ranks.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

berithoras

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2014, 03:57:04 am »
I've always taken Fanayal's statement that "Meppa doesn't know who he is" as meaning that Meppa doesn't know what his role is in the greater picture, and not that he doesn't remember who he is.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 04:00:03 am by berithoras »

mrganondorf

  • *
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Nurse Leweth
  • Posts: 2002
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2014, 11:45:06 am »
I've always taken Fanayal's statement that "Meppa doesn't know who he is" as meaning that Meppa doesn't know what his role is in the greater picture, and not that he doesn't remember who he is.

Welcome berithoras!  i wonder, what does your name mean?

idiot that i am, i hadn't thought of this interpretation.  it would be a cool reveal if Meppa is waiting to discharge some last order from Moenghus or the Cishaurim chief, but he doesn't know how or why.  maybe he'll know when he reaches the Andiamine Heights?  maybe he'll know when he meets a battle-weary Kellhus warping back?  maybe Meppa will show us who the White Luck Warrior really is!

dragharrow

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2014, 02:53:44 am »
There is the potential there for an extreme increase in numbers for The Few. All of them, especially the mandate, where thrust into a position of high regard. They would have been recruiting heavily, openly, and with the full support of the people. I'm guessing most would be eager to join the ranks, and anyone from children to older men would have been given the chance. 20 years is a long time.
Probably not older men. Before you can even really begin to learn how to perform sorcery you need to master the school's language. Then you need to learn how apprehend the complicated semantic processes of the sorcery. And at that point you're still a complete beginner.

It's so much harder to teach adults a new language than children. If they have only spoken one language their whole lives they may never may be able to grasp another one at the level necessary to convey semantics. If they havn't received any formal mathematical training they may never be able to grasp the logical jumps.

I think that the barriers against turning older people into useful mages are probably too great to make it a worthwhile investment. The costs of providing teachers of sorcery for anyone but young candidates would be too expensive.

locke

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2014, 06:29:01 am »
I think the hard to teach adults language thing is an old relic of a fallacy that is reinforced by an approach to new languages that is functionally terrible and wouldn't work at all without a captive audience under threat of punishment with bad grades.  Voluntary new language acquisition is just work plain and simple, like learning to use a computer is work, or learning a new job is work. It requires mental effort, patience and time, most adults will happily use the excuse the fallacy conveniently supplies to avoid the work or to avoid feeling bad about themselves for giving up.

It's not ME to blame it's science, nope not possible despite billions of examples of it occurring throughout history clearly it's impossible I am definitely not to blame and have no part in my own failure.

All typ0s courtesy of Samsung.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 06:32:10 am by locke »

mrganondorf

  • *
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Nurse Leweth
  • Posts: 2002
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2014, 11:06:00 am »
the thing about adults having such a hard time with language strikes me as one of those lies that the audience is likely to believe, so it might work against the author to try to explain the opposite

in one of my classes, we just watched Escape Plan starring Stallone.  part of the movie has a character asserting that water swirls down a toilet differently in the southern hemisphere, vs the north.  that's the kind of thing that just so many people believe, that the audience would be disappointed if the heroes didn't employ it!

dragharrow

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2014, 11:49:42 am »
Akka does say that that is the reason that schools do not take on adult students. He could be wrong of course but Akka believes it to be true and so do the schools.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5935
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2014, 05:23:30 pm »
While I agree with locke, as it applies IRL,

Akka does say that that is the reason that schools do not take on adult students. He could be wrong of course but Akka believes it to be true and so do the schools.

I think the Earwa belief would be equally prevalent and hold true. Whether it is actually true is irrelevant to them.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Seökti

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • we all get nailed to the cross
    • View Profile
    • =-{the Ghosts}-=
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2015, 11:08:26 pm »
I do believe that adults have a harder time grasping new languages.  Their minds are cluttered with much more, and their brains are less plastic.  Evolutionarily speaking it makes a lot of sense for children to be better at learning in general, as they have everything to learn.

I'm not certain Meppa is someone from the past that we knew, or maybe a lesser figure that only now plays prominent.  His assumed amnesia certainly suggests he is a familiar, but who?  My first guesses are almost certainly wrong - Moenghus, Cnaiur, Xinemus - all dead with little ambiguity, except for Cnaiur who was decked out in scars.

My money is on Meppa being either new or an old lesser character.
"I went mourning without the sun: I stood up and cried in the congregation."   -Job 30:28

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2015, 06:30:20 am »
Kellhus also believes adults are less capable of learning sorcery than children, apparently. It's mentioned that nearly every member of the Swayal Compact is young. That implies they weren't taking older women, whether they were among the Few or not.

Alia

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Of The Knife
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2015, 08:13:10 pm »
Don't forget that Swayal would not take Mimara, because they claimed she was too old for it.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2015, 02:25:05 am »
I think that's what Esmenet told Mimara to discourage her, but I don't think Mimara ever actually submitted herself to the Swayali  so an official decision from them was probably never made.

Alia

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Of The Knife
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2015, 05:56:02 am »
So, here is a quote from TJE, chapter III
Quote
Even the Schoolmen Esmenet consulted had told her that Mimara was too old to master the painstaking meanings sorcery required.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

The Sharmat

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Horde General
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2015, 05:58:31 am »
Ah, then it is unlikely they'd be eager for her then. Though I suppose it's well within Esmenet's power to insist that they do, if she wanted to. And Mimara would hold her unwillingness to do that against her.

mrganondorf

  • *
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Nurse Leweth
  • Posts: 2002
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2015, 04:30:56 pm »
reading back through this thread, i realize that we almost nothing of the purported conflict between the Cishaurim and SS.  surely they would have had a battle here and there over the years--it would make a good Atrocity Tale

i can't remember just now--does Meppa himself claim to have memory loss?  i'm wondering if he's just pretending memory loss to Fanayal and co

i wonder if there's any possibility the Cishaurim weren't responsible for the attack on the SS.  i could see another individual stumbling upon the same mechanism of sorcery that Fane utilized, but not embracing Fane's religion (if they are separable).  Dunyain or perhaps a renegade faction in the Cishaurim?

like maybe Moenghus lied that the Cishaurim blamed the SS for skin spies.  maybe Moenghus just had some of his sect attack the SS and then when the SS responded, all of the Cishaurim became united in opposition

maybe the Cishaurim attackers warped out too and just threw some bones on the ground as they left to make it look like they died

maybe they utilized a long range magic cannon and only cast a glamor to make it look like anyone showed up at all, lol