Posting this on Facebook, but I'll post it here too, on the Tekne-Nuke:

Considering how it was buried, or seemingly buried under the ruins of Dagliash, but it must have been above the ruins of Nogaral, lest it have fallen down The Well. Perhaps it was a plan to take out Dagliash that never had to be executed? I can't imagine that a bunch of nukes is a good idea, even if they had multiple, they still need to live on Earwa after they close it. I doubt they want to live in a radioactive wasteland...

Hmm, in rereading The False Sun, I noticed something interesting:

Together they pulled down Nogaral, the High Round, raised it into a heap over the mouth of the Well.

[...]

At last they paused to regard their labour, the Inchoroi alighting upon the same spectral floor that bore Shaeönanra. Crimson sunlight bathed the southern ramps, inking the numberless crevices across the wrack and ruin. And they rejoiced, Man and Inchoroi…

They had no inkling of the greater violence their sorcery had unleashed.

The sky cracked. Iros shuddered. The impossible sun tipped and stumbled. Plumes of ejecta exploded from points along the mountain’s perimeter, scarcely visible for the Diurnal’s encompassing glare. The mound that had been Nogaral shrugged then slumped into its contradiction. It was as if a dome of cloth had been pressed into a dimple. Summit became basin. Illumination became shadow. The mountain had been rotten with Viri, its innumerable ways fractured by the cataclysmic impact of the Ark thousands of years before. The underworld mansion imploded, collapsed inward and downward, tier upon tier, hall upon hall, undone by this final indignity. This last outrage.

It seems that something exploded in The Well?

But that seems at odds with the line "They had no inkling of the greater violence their sorcery had unleashed."  Huh?  If it was another bomb, surely Aurang would have known of it?  Unless it was Aurax's idea that never came to fruition?  Because if it was simply Titirga unleashing some powerful sorcery, surely they had an inkling of that?

Probably drawing lines from nowhere though.

I had a thought that I had posted in the ARC subforum here:

I just had an idea, because I was spinning some nonsense in chatting with Madness the other day, coming up with things that make sense but not really.  My question was essentially, why does Yatwer seem to be able to see everything, what happens and move agents within that, yet, cannot account for Kellhus?

Well, I was thinking that Kellhus is somehow outside of time, but that doesn't really make sense, since if he was, why not just go back and kill anyone before they were even a problem?  No, something more subtle is happening I think.

So, in spinning ideas of what goes on in the scene where the White-Luck Warrior tries to assassinate Kellhus, I started to wonder, what goes wrong?  It's Kelmomas' intervention, seemingly, that disentangles Kellhus and the Narindar.  That got me thinking, what do Kellhus (who has shown to be disentangled before and act beyond Yatwer's seeing) and Kelmomas share?  Well, one, is blood, but what is the effect of the blood?  Possibly the answer is to be "self-moving souls."

How?  Well, Kellhus tells us he is moved by visions (a topic for yet aother thread, but here it suffices that they exist, whatever the source) and Kelmomas is moved by either the Voice, Esmenet's affection, or, as Inrilatas, tells us, the pursuit of God-hood, perhaps The Absolute.  In either case, they are outside the usual cause-effect chain, outside the Darkness the Comes Before.

Why would this make them blind spots to Yatwer (and the rest of the Gods).  Well, possibly because the God are that Darkness.  Since they come before, they know what comes after.  But with the Absolute, with a self-moving soul, they are blind, because they cannot be seen in the chain of cause-and-effect.

Indeed, Kellhus says "You can be Everywhere and still blind," "You can be Eternal and remember nothing."  Also, "Even the infinite can be surprised."  The Anasûrimbor's are outside what the Gods can predict, because they are outside the God's influence (mostly).  They have the ability to move themselves, independent of the God's entangling.

Perhaps?

I later had this thought too:

My personal crack-pot theory is that Yatwer doesn't see the future at all.  To me, it is something like the following:

The Gods are the Darkness that Comes Before.  What arises from that Darkness they can read the implications of.  So, what they see is basically a chain of cause and effect, because (when?) they are themselves the main cause.  This could be why Yatwer's vision isn't 100% clear, there tends to be more than one cause at play, but She does seem to see the most of it (because (when?) She is the most of it) when it comes to the WLW.  In fact, perhaps that is what the WL is, Her moving (as the Darkness) to line events up and place the WLW in the most advantageous place within the chain of cause and effect.

So, what She can't see are those totally outside the Darkness.  That is, those who are self-moving souls, not moved by the Darkness at all and so outside the chain of cause and effect that She (or any of the Gods) can read.

This is probably a totally Swiss cheese theory, as I haven't really thought out all the implications of it.

So, several "points" I am drawing here:

1.) The Darkness that Comes Before is the movement of your soul.  Your soul is what connects you to the God, as it is of the Outside and can be accessed by them.

2.) That the Gods are actually blind to Kellhus, et. al.  My inference is that they only see him through the lens of those who are under the influence of the Darkness.

3.) This could possibly explain why the Gods never got wise to the Consult's plan's.  Everyone they are surrounded by directly is either under sway of the Inverse Fire, or is an unsouled Tekne creation.  Also could explain another part of why they so often act through "shadow agents."

Still not fully formed, but perhaps there is something to this?

Quote from: Cnaiur vs Karsa vs Drogo on July 26, 2016, 11:59:22 pm

How about Inrilatus fucking Theliopa and calling her Sranky. That shit turned my stomach. 

Yeah... that bothers me. I don't believe in baby-proofing the world but - personally knowing survivors of abuse - I sometimes think Bakker's writing should come with one giant trigger-warning.

Not that it triggered me or anything, but I never even batted an eye at anything that ever happened in any of the books.

That part made my stomach drop and I had to read it twice to be sure I understood correctly.

Poor Theli, I guess I really did like her...

I'm the redneck (Wv), aren't you from PA (quaker)? Lol, but we can call it whatever you want. The point is we admit to not knowing much on the subject. In fact, I've been schooled on the subject while reading Bakker.

Origionally I'm actually from NY but I do like oatmeal,  .  I might take you up on it if I had even a modicum of free-time.  Right now though, wife on bed-rest, baby being a baby, three weeks from another plus 4 more older ones, I am often lucky if I have time to use the bathroom, haha.

It's not to say that it's all not a set up to have someone rewrite these laws somehow.

Right, that line of thought was what prompted my crack-pot theory that Kellhus will somehow become both Zero (the Cubit) and One (the God of Gods (or Solitary God), once the Hundred are dealt with (or unified)).  That is one way he can make his proclamation that the Few won't be damned anymore come true.

But yeah, I am nothing of a real philosopher though, so I probably am just misunderstanding it all.

Indeed, as Simas just posted, Yggdrasil is a good example.  Trees are also common alchemical symbols, usually representing wisdom of some sort, not to mention a bridge between Earth and Heaven.  Bakker uses branches to represent different paths of action at times too, usually with leaves as well.

I'll try to dig up some more alchemical references when I am home and have access to the Jung works there.

Was that in TGO or The False Sun, Odium?

False Sun.