I think Kellhus's explanation is probably wrong - the Cish blind themselves so as to concentrate on what should be, not what is.

That's the contradiction regular sorcery runs into - that they want to change what is, but they want to change it in order to suit other things which just are.

Insightful, +1.

Quote from: EkyannusIII on August 29, 1974, 04:08:46 pm

Did the Dunyain somehow lose sight of their goal? By what measure could such people as these still regard themselves as inadequate?

Didn't so much lose sight, as was just plain out wrong from the start. Doesn't Koringhus tell us as much, and Kellhus, and Moe? By erasing history and hiding the fact of sorcery, the were essentially lying to themselves. The were keeping key ingredients need to obtain a SMS out of the equation.

Huh. Sorcery, as a key component of the SMS?  Interesting.  What role might Cants of Compulsion play in achieving the SMS? This is interesting to ponder on, thank you.

Hello. I read the first book in 2004, and have never read any of them twice. I barely have any clue what is happening each time a book is released.

Welcome.

Your comment needs to be on the masthead of this forum.

Meppa's alive, friend. Last seen semi-conscious by Malowebi before Kellhus chops Malowebi's head.

Somnambulist pointed that out to me.

Next one Kellhus' list, the Meta-Psukhe? He has said he is more than Dunyain, and Maithanet has said that Kellhus does love Esmenet and is weakened by it.

I suppose it makes sense that the purely pragmatical Dunyain would regard women as breeding tools, but even then, I can't help but wonder if the whale mothers were just as smart as the men - untapped potential, maybe.

They would have to be smart to avoid dysgenic effects from breeding. As for their potential, the Dunyain value the Self-Moving Soul above all else, and are not concerned overly with the development and fulfillment of other, lesser persons except as stepping stones along that path.

Which makes one wonder what they considered the SMS to consist of if they still thought themselves inadequate.  Kellhus is a prodigy even among Dunyain and Koringhus is said to have "confounded the elders with his gifts" - what was needed beyond that? Did the Dunyain somehow lose sight of their goal? By what measure could such people as these still regard themselves as inadequate?

Quote from: Cuttlefish on July 30, 2016, 01:03:14 pm

The whale-mothers thing reminded me a lot of daemoncubala from Warhammer 40k; it sorta amused me, because me and a friend had this recurring joke that Bakker should be the one to write 40k literature.

I wish Duskweaver was still a frequent poster, may he return sooner rather than later. He was another poster who constantly noted analogues between Warhammer 40K and Earwa. I've never heard Bakker mention it but it makes sense its something he's been exposed to in his life of dungeon mastering.

Use your influence and get him to write for the Black Library.  Paul Kearney has written one Space Marine book already.  Bakker MUST write Space Marines, it is imperative.

Necroing this because I think I caught a Tolkien allusion of sorts.

Cujara-Cin'moi = Ar-Pharazon of the Silmarillion

Reasoning:  Both are kings of vast might and vaster pride who bring doom on themselves and their people by having enough hubris to think that they could deal on equal terms with eldritch abominations.

Serwe is the most powerful sorcerer in the entire three seas, barring kellhus.

Has it ever been stated that she is stronger than Saccarees?

Esmi outwitted a half-dunyain.

Esmi had the unintentional good fortune to hire an assassin with the White Luck.  Against anyone else Maithanet would have won handily - you'll note he effortlessly kills that Captain (Imhailas?) that is in love with Esmi after he is ordered to arrest Maithanet during the interrogation scene.