I haven't slept well for three nights now (a close relative is very ill), so this might not be all that coherent...

The Dunyain believe that it is potentially possible to come before everything, to master all circumstance, to be in control of all the things that control oneself while still remaining, in at least some sense, oneself (i.e. you're not simply moving one step back up the chain). Attaining the Absolute is to bend what comes before and what comes after into a self-moving circle. In Earwa, it's at least conceivable that this might actually work.

The Argument, however, holds all this subject to the physical and logical laws of our own supernatural-free world. You can't come before yourself. You can't boost your intellect through generations of selective breeding to overcome the Blind Brain problem. Bio-engineering the problem away just reveals the brick wall at the back of the theatre. There is no 'self' and no 'soul', so the idea of a 'self-moving soul' is nonsensical. The only 'Absolute' is the non-existence of meaning, which renders even itself defunct.

IMO, the metaphysical set-up of Earwa is Bakker's counter to the Argument. Either Neil's right or God exists, basically (hence he is logically equivalent to 'No-God'). The Inchoroi are the end-product of a world of Neils and Samanthas, who found out too late that the Argument is actually wrong, and set out to make it right.

Except I think it was one of the Inchoroi, not agents of (if you were denoting, say Nonmen or something).

Yeah, I phrased that post very badly. 'Agents' was referring to the 'prophets' the Inchoroi (presumably) communicated with directly. The bit in parentheses was meant to refer only to the Inchies themselves, not the said 'agents'/'prophets'. Inchie reveals itself to some loony, declares him a 'prophet' and gets him to pass on the 'Divine Mandate' to the rest of his Tribe, sort of thing?

Unless your suggestion is that the Inchoroi actually appeared to the Tribe as a whole rather than working through individual 'prophets'? But that seems to be against their MO as indicated by the Angeshrael encounter.

If anything, Neil and Kellhus feel like opposites to me. Neil has given up on becoming a self-moving soul, because the Argument proves that the Dunyain's quest is impossible. IMO, Neil is more like...

Neil Cassidy
Nau-Cayuti
No-Christ

The annointed martyr-messiah who awakens the No-God. He dies to bring about the semantic apocalypse. The revelation that sets you free from the illusion of meaning.

Remember when this was said?  I still don't believe you, and I've got the last several comments of confusion as for the why

The confusion was not caused by any ambiguity in the IPA. It was caused by Madness not correctly remembering it.

The IPA doesn't just say "this sound should sort of rhyme with that sound" or "it's sort of how you say [word] but oh wait you're from [country] so forget that because you people pronounce that completely differently". Each symbol precisely defines what you do with your mouth, lips and tongue to make the sound. Unless one of us is not a human or has some serious deformation of those parts of the anatomy, you and I can follow the IPA rules and pronounce the same symbols exactly the same way, even if we don't share a language. Well, in theory, anyway. Sounds that just plain don't exist in one's native tongue are still hard to get right, but at least you'd know you weren't getting it right.

If someone shows you a complex but valid mathematical proof and you don't understand it, that doesn't mean the proof (or mathematics itself) is wrong or ambiguous.

To put it another way, Gnosis beats Anagogis.

Also "the only way to avoid ambiguity" does not mean it's foolproof. Perhaps I should have said "the only way to have any chance of avoiding ambiguity". But that just demonstrates how imprecise the English language is. Quod errat fornicabitur demonstrandum.

Confucius was really onto something with that whole Rectification of Names thing...

- ʃɪʃ to begin Cishaurim

Sure does sound snaky that way, but I just like crunchy /k/ sounds. Cememketri, Cingulat and Cironj are the only Bakkerian names where I make the initial 'c' soft. (Well, there's also Cmiral, where I pronounce it as /ts/, after the Czech composer).

I might be losing the rules of transcript in memory but could we drop the ʊ entirely in Dunyain?

I don't see how. AFAIK, there's no real world language where a circumflex makes its vowel silent (usually it either lengthens it or marks the stressed syllable, or both), and I think you need some vowel sound between /d/ and /n/.

- I like your Sranc but I think I'd go n rather than ŋ.

I can't make my mouth do that comfortably.

To be fair, that's probably something that gets said a lot around sranc, or at least it would if the muffled screaming didn't get in the way.

Cnaiur Urs Skiotha - 'naɪər 'ɜrz ski'oʊθə
Scylvendi - skɪl'vɛndi
Anasurimbor - 'ænæ'sœrɪmbɔr
Inchoroi - 'ɪnkɒrɔɪ
Cishaurim - kɪʃ'aʊərɪm
Cujara Cinmoi - ku'xɑrə 'kɪnmɔɪ
Dunyain - 'dʊnjaɪn
Ainon - 'aɪnɒn
Kian - 'kaɪæn
Dagliash - 'dæglij'æʃ
Momemn - 'moʊməm
Sranc - 'sræŋk

Since you were specifically part of the initial thoughts, do you think that you'd be down to consent at some point in the relative future to be a guest member on the podcast ?

Sure. It will be audio-only, though, and timing is dependant on my work schedule. Some time in July/August would probably be best.

So perhaps you could ask her (if she knows) what are some current in-use tropes by feminist-friendly writers (gendered whatever) and maybe some comparison literature she would recommend.

I'll ask. I gather she's not generally too impressed with the current crop of 'deliberately feminist' writers, though. I do know Robin Hobb/Megan Lindholm is her favourite fantasy and sci-fi author, for whatever that's worth.

Lol. Did she finish it?

Oh yes. I don't recall her ever not finishing a book once she's started, even if she hates it.

Have you checked out the discussion in Disciple of the Dog

I haven't, and I won't until I've actually read the book.