[TGO SPOILERS] Kiünnat and Zero

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« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2016, 03:13:38 am »
I like the comparison Som. Yea, reading the threads, it seems likely that giving the time in the World, Koringhus would've surpassed Kellhus. Also, I never grasped the importance of Koringhus grasping the Absolute and the connection to Zero, that it is. I love this thread!

Glad you joined us here.

A thought I just had, mind you not one I am really buying, per se, but something possible, is that we know know that dying is a possible route to The Absolute, a la Koringhus.  So, it could stand to reason that this is why Moënghus pretty much allowed Kellhus to kill him.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

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« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2016, 04:14:57 pm »
Thanks, H.

Yea, but would things Moe did in the world effect his ability to just die and go to the Absolute? I think Koringhus wasn't stained by a whole lot, unless the key here, is that Mimara forgave him. Which brings up others speculation that at some point Mimara will forgive a mass amount of people. Huh, Koringhus was evil in the JE, until Mimara forgave him and he understood the Zero God.
 
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2016, 09:19:01 pm »
My current interpretation is, basically, God is Love.

Yeah, I know. But it does actually make sense and throws a whole bunch of stuff into a new lens.

It's more like a very Darwinian Mother Earth god, which is both transcendent and immanent.

Basically, Koringhus came upon the realization that one of the Dunyain's greatest flaws was "denying the interval between themselves". In other words, they removed passion from themselves to the extent they couldn't experience familial love between parents and children. This is what the boy was "defective" for -- he couldn't deny the interval between himself and his father. Nor could Koringhus do so with his son.

The Sranc become an important metaphor. We see how, en masse, the Sranc begin to function as one thing (the Shroud) instead of many. Koringhus sees that to reach the Absolute, one must simply stop conceiving themselves as "separate from the whole".

All of this tied very directly into the "circuit of watcher and watched". In Earwa, time is more like a rock than a river. Everything has already happened, was always going to happen, etc. I don't think any character or being is capable of changing this -- even the Gods. They can screw around with events in the meantime, but the ends are always same no matter, because the "end" is The Absolute. However, in Earwa, things do not quite exist unless they are WITNESSED. Koringhus hints at this as well. The Earwaverse is basically guaranteed to end in the recollection of the Many into the Whole, Zero-Goddess/Absolute -- which then looks back upon the disparate strands of itself, the "darkness that came before", effectively creating itself.

I suspect that, very early on, the Nonmen were an offshoot of men that worshiped the Ground, while Men worshiped the Sky and/or Sun. Or, conversely, Nonmen were a group of men that evolved into a nocturnal lifestyle, thereby "naturally" worshiping the Ground and Moon. The exact order is open for debate, but it makes a lot sense for the Nonmen's whole style, especially once we realize that earth-ground-nature-oblivion are sort of connected here as being the primordial state of things. Nonmen are pretty clearly a riff on a number of "fairy" folklore, and therefore a strong connection with nature, night, and femininity. Go back and read the description of Onkis now:
Quote
Onkis is the Goddess of hope and aspiration. One of the so-called Compensatory Gods, who reward devotion in life with paradise in the afterlife, Onkis draws followers from all walks of life, though rarely in great numbers.

She is only mentioned twice in the Higarata, and in the (likely apocryphal) Parnishtas she is portrayed as a prophetess, not of the future, but of the motivations of Men. The so-called “shakers” belong to an extreme branch of the Cult, where the devotees ritually strive to be “possessed” by the Goddess. Her symbol is the Copper Tree (which also happens to be the device of the ancient Nonman Mansion of Siöl, though no link has been established).

Onkis is also called the Singer-in-the-Dark.

Her idol depicts the severed head of a beautiful woman upon a copper tree.

And her description in the text:

Quote
“The idol worked in white marble, eyes closed with the sunken look of the dead. At first glance she appeared to be the severed head of a woman, beautiful yet vaguely common, mounted on a pole. Anything more than a glance, however, revealed the pole to be a miniature tree, like those cultivated by the ancient Norsirai, only worked in bronze. Branches poked through her parted lips and swept across her face—nature reborn through human lips. Other branches reached behind to break through her frozen hair.”

Bunch of stuff starting to slip together, yeah?

Either way, at some point, Men or Nonmen (perhaps unintentionally) fucked it all up. I'm not sure if the "ritual of the Hundred" we hear the Boatman talk about is meant to be taken literally, but it could be. However, I have a strong feeling that the splitting of the Zero-Goddess came as a result of sentience (and also language, which I suspect in Earwa biology are one in the same). The Hundred Gods feed on conscious entities -- the soulless provide no sustenance. However, all of the most popular gods -- and thereby most powerful -- have a pretty sensible hierarchy based on their "proximity to the Zero-Goddess".

Yatwer is at the top of the chain, because ultimately you can't have life without birth (just one reason the Inchoroi are so fucked).

Gilgaol, naturally, comes right after, since War -- or more simply,  Death -- is part of the natural equation here.

I don't think Yatwer actually IS the Zero-Goddess, she's just the closest. The reason death comes so close after her is because they symbolize the "split" most acutely.

Also, check out the Kabbalah concept of Tzimtzum for a pretty straightforward explanation of the Zero-God thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzimtzum

Quote
Because the tzimtzum results in the "empty space" in which spiritual and physical Worlds and ultimately, free will can exist, God is often referred to as "Ha-Makom" (המקום lit. "the Place", "the Omnipresent") in Rabbinic literature ("He is the Place of the World, but the World is not His Place"[2]). In Kabbalistic interpretation, this describes the paradox of simultaneous Divine presence and absence within the vacuum and resultant Creation. Relatedly, Olam — the Hebrew for "World/Realm" — is derived from the root עלם meaning "concealment". This etymology is complementary with the concept of Tzimtzum in that the subsequent spiritual realms and the ultimate physical universe conceal to different degrees the infinite spiritual lifeforce of creation. Their progressive diminutions of the Divine Ohr (Light) from realm to realm in creation are also referred to in the plural as secondary tzimtzumim (innumerable "condensations/veilings/constrictions" of the lifeforce). However, these subsequent concealments are found in earlier, Medieval Kabbalah. The new doctrine of Luria advanced the notion of the primordial withdrawal (a dilug - radical "leap") in order to reconcile a causal creative chain from the Infinite with finite Existence.

Go back and read Koringhus's death scene now. Consider how his time spent in the darkness, deep in the Earth, prepared him for this revelation -- and how his son was reared in that darkness.


I actually there's some intentional humor here. All the wars, all the faiths and gods and aliens, are missing the point because it's so damn simple. Koringhus is barely outside Ishual for a few weeks, figures everything out, does some drugs and jumps off a cliff -- into the empty arms of Nature.

However, I think Kellhus knows this truth very well, and has been playing his entire game according to it. Those first pangs of emotion way back in PON weren't for nothing. In fact, the idea of a Primordial, feminine nature goddess makes a whole bunch of sense if we view Kellhus as a sort of Positive Satanic Figure (especially if he is, in fact, Ajokli -- the Adversary of the Gods).

I could keep going here because there's a shitload to talk about with this revelation (Mimara and the Judging Eye, Cnaiur and the Scylvendi's weird non-religion, the Inchoroi as a "Race of Lovers"), but the post is already a bit on the large side and I'm still brewing over things.

MSJ

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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2016, 12:09:47 am »
Great, great post FB!! I for one like the idea of it. I like H's idea that Kinuuiet(sp) is the right way to worship. What really draws me to yours is this:

Quote
However, I think Kellhus knows this truth very well, and has been playing his entire game according to it. Those first pangs of emotion way back in PON weren't for nothing. In fact, the idea of a Primordial, feminine nature goddess makes a whole bunch of sense if we view Kellhus as a sort of Positive Satanic Figure (especially if he is, in fact, Ajokli -- the Adversary of the Gods).

I know I sound like a broken record, but this is the evidence I originally cited as Kellhus gaining emotion. And, those emotions affecting him in some manner. I do not think that God is Love in Earwa, though. I can't give you a reason why, other than I can't see that being Bakker's endgame with these novels.

Quote
“The idol worked in white marble, eyes closed with the sunken look of the dead. At first glance she appeared to be the severed head of a woman, beautiful yet vaguely common, mounted on a pole.

The head on a pole behind me. Another option, The-Singer-in-the-dark, The Darkness That Comes Before.....

Great catches and I love your insight into it all.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2016, 12:28:57 am »
Thanks man! I have a ton more written notes that I have to go over make coherent still.

I know I sound like a broken record, but this is the evidence I originally cited as Kellhus gaining emotion. And, those emotions affecting him in some manner. I do not think that God is Love in Earwa, though. I can't give you a reason why, other than I can't see that being Bakker's endgame with these novels.

Yeah I'm pretty convinced that the emotional aspect is really, really important. I think the Dunyain were basically running into a brick wall because of it.

And I definitely don't think we'll get some sappy "God is Love!" ending or anything, but I do feel strongly it's going to be a function of the idea. Part of the point of the series (as Bakker claims) is to write from the "male gaze" and then turn everything on its head with a feminine twist. The idea that "God is Love" is a pretty common feminine metaphysical concept, and it fits very much into an "earth-mother" esque thing. And it's still very much a "Bakker version" of the idea -- the love connects people to the Absolute, but the Gaze (as Koringhus starts calling the Judging Eye) is still a very harsh, judging entity. Koringhus notes how the forest below is "endlessly measuring" or whatever, because it's basically natural selection and survival. It ties in without sacrifice, loss, etc. make one stronger.

Also, I don't think it's a coincidence that we learn all this from Koringhus's POV in the final section, with the repetition of "Cuts and cuts and cuts...", only to be introduced to our old friend Cnaiur. I was surprised I didn't catch it the first time honestly lol.

MSJ

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« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2016, 12:38:53 am »
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And I definitely don't think we'll get some sappy "God is Love" ending or anything, but I do feel strongly it's going to be a function of the idea. Part of the point of the series (as Bakker claims) is to write from the "male gaze" and then turn everything on its head with a feminine twist. The idea that "God is Love" is a pretty common feminine metaphysical concept, and it fits very much into an "earth-mother" esque thing. And it's still very much a "Bakker version" of the idea -- the love connects people to the Absolute, but the Gaze (as Koringhus starts calling the Judging Eye) is still a very harsh, judging entity. Koringhus notes how the forest below is "endlessly measuring" or whatever, because it's basically natural selection and survival. It ties in without sacrifice, loss, etc. make one stronger.

Ok, I feel a whole lot better about that. Mimara is essentially the God walking right now. Onkis is a female diety. So, yea I see how he's giving us 6 books of the male view to have it a flipped on its head by the end.

Question? Do you think the JE is 100% accurate. I believe Mimara even thinks that she only sees the now of things. Wether it's damned now, not the past, nor the future. While I love who she is growing into, I think that bit could hinder her and make her judge too harshly.

Also, I know there has been speculation for awhile now that she can forgive sin/damnation. Would you say that that was confirmed by her forgiving Koringhus?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2016, 02:19:07 am »
Quote
And I definitely don't think we'll get some sappy "God is Love" ending or anything, but I do feel strongly it's going to be a function of the idea. Part of the point of the series (as Bakker claims) is to write from the "male gaze" and then turn everything on its head with a feminine twist. The idea that "God is Love" is a pretty common feminine metaphysical concept, and it fits very much into an "earth-mother" esque thing. And it's still very much a "Bakker version" of the idea -- the love connects people to the Absolute, but the Gaze (as Koringhus starts calling the Judging Eye) is still a very harsh, judging entity. Koringhus notes how the forest below is "endlessly measuring" or whatever, because it's basically natural selection and survival. It ties in without sacrifice, loss, etc. make one stronger.

Ok, I feel a whole lot better about that. Mimara is essentially the God walking right now. Onkis is a female diety. So, yea I see how he's giving us 6 books of the male view to have it a flipped on its head by the end.

Question? Do you think the JE is 100% accurate. I believe Mimara even thinks that she only sees the now of things. Wether it's damned now, not the past, nor the future. While I love who she is growing into, I think that bit could hinder her and make her judge too harshly.

Also, I know there has been speculation for awhile now that she can forgive sin/damnation. Would you say that that was confirmed by her forgiving Koringhus?

I definitely think the JE is accurate in the sense that it's showing the truth of Damnation within the current system. It's really hard to say (I've only read it once and a few parts I went over again) where the line is for "true damnation" -- that is, the Damnation that occurs even if you don't get seized by a particular God, nor do you "sidestep" into Oblivion.

However, I think there's a decent possibility that most -- if not all -- of Kellhus's claims regarding the "rewriting of scripture", such as sorcerors and whores no longer being damned, will end up being true. Mimara is poised to forgive both of those groups, for example, via her own experiences in life and with Achamian (and even Nonmen, what with Nil'giccas).

I think that in some fashion, the nature of Damnation has become "polluted" or something by the existence of the Hundred, who even if created by Men/Nonmen (

Koringhus is a weird example too because he himself can see the Judging Eye, and only when he grasps the core idea of "denying the interval between everything" does the Eye approve. But Mimara forgives him anyway, so...I dunno, lol.

I actually think Earwa is some kind of literal Garden of Eden, but that sentient beings so easily corrupt "nature" (tree of knowledge and all that) that the Zero-Goddess has to be harsh and measuring -- yet forgiving of the weak and disadvantaged. The Inchoroi (and to a lesser extent the Dunyain) are the extreme example of this. They are the far end result of basically removing nature from the equation. They rape in every sense of the word. They've removed any meaning from sexuality beyond indulgence or as a weapon, they've rebuilt their bodies from total artifice, the Ark is implied to artificially "birth" them -- and even the Ark itself is symbolically like a sperm, penetrating the egg that is Earwa and infesting the garden.

The Inchoroi may have been what spurred people to create the Hundred in the first place, or even become them.

Note also that when Koringhus sees the No-God, he describes many aspects we haven't previously attributed, such as a "beauty" for things mechanical and efficient, of violence and domination, etc. The No-God is very much an Inchoroi god.

The whole thing is surprisingly faithful with Tolkien's themes in Lord of the Rings.

MSJ

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« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2016, 02:48:17 am »
FB, I like the idea that Kellhus's rewriting scripture so that it comes true. And, yes, I believe Mimara would have to be involved. Hasn't done it yet though, always talking about Akka's damnation, lol.

Well, I believe the 100 are polluted, because thats who they are. "Prophets bring the word of Men to God.", Kellhus says this somewhere. Essentially they were created entirely of man. With all credit going to @H, I agree the ancient men who walked with Gods, walked with the Inchies. I speculated on Westeros, that the Breaking of the Gates was the literal event that created the Hundred. The Inchoroi for that matter have had a hand in everything, with the possible exception of Kiünnat. From the Tusk, to Inri, to Fane, all of them. Deciet after Deciet, so literal prayer was damnation. I think this might be what's in Wert's 2nd blog post. How when first Men came from Eanna to Earwa, those Gods they met were Aurang and the gang.

When does Koringhus see the No-God?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 02:51:03 am by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2016, 01:27:08 pm »
My current interpretation is, basically, God is Love.

Yeah, I know. But it does actually make sense and throws a whole bunch of stuff into a new lens.

It's more like a very Darwinian Mother Earth god, which is both transcendent and immanent.

Basically, Koringhus came upon the realization that one of the Dunyain's greatest flaws was "denying the interval between themselves". In other words, they removed passion from themselves to the extent they couldn't experience familial love between parents and children. This is what the boy was "defective" for -- he couldn't deny the interval between himself and his father. Nor could Koringhus do so with his son.

The Sranc become an important metaphor. We see how, en masse, the Sranc begin to function as one thing (the Shroud) instead of many. Koringhus sees that to reach the Absolute, one must simply stop conceiving themselves as "separate from the whole".

All of this tied very directly into the "circuit of watcher and watched". In Earwa, time is more like a rock than a river. Everything has already happened, was always going to happen, etc. I don't think any character or being is capable of changing this -- even the Gods. They can screw around with events in the meantime, but the ends are always same no matter, because the "end" is The Absolute. However, in Earwa, things do not quite exist unless they are WITNESSED. Koringhus hints at this as well. The Earwaverse is basically guaranteed to end in the recollection of the Many into the Whole, Zero-Goddess/Absolute -- which then looks back upon the disparate strands of itself, the "darkness that came before", effectively creating itself.

I suspect that, very early on, the Nonmen were an offshoot of men that worshiped the Ground, while Men worshiped the Sky and/or Sun. Or, conversely, Nonmen were a group of men that evolved into a nocturnal lifestyle, thereby "naturally" worshiping the Ground and Moon. The exact order is open for debate, but it makes a lot sense for the Nonmen's whole style, especially once we realize that earth-ground-nature-oblivion are sort of connected here as being the primordial state of things. Nonmen are pretty clearly a riff on a number of "fairy" folklore, and therefore a strong connection with nature, night, and femininity. Go back and read the description of Onkis now:
Quote
Onkis is the Goddess of hope and aspiration. One of the so-called Compensatory Gods, who reward devotion in life with paradise in the afterlife, Onkis draws followers from all walks of life, though rarely in great numbers.

She is only mentioned twice in the Higarata, and in the (likely apocryphal) Parnishtas she is portrayed as a prophetess, not of the future, but of the motivations of Men. The so-called “shakers” belong to an extreme branch of the Cult, where the devotees ritually strive to be “possessed” by the Goddess. Her symbol is the Copper Tree (which also happens to be the device of the ancient Nonman Mansion of Siöl, though no link has been established).

Onkis is also called the Singer-in-the-Dark.

Her idol depicts the severed head of a beautiful woman upon a copper tree.

And her description in the text:

Quote
“The idol worked in white marble, eyes closed with the sunken look of the dead. At first glance she appeared to be the severed head of a woman, beautiful yet vaguely common, mounted on a pole. Anything more than a glance, however, revealed the pole to be a miniature tree, like those cultivated by the ancient Norsirai, only worked in bronze. Branches poked through her parted lips and swept across her face—nature reborn through human lips. Other branches reached behind to break through her frozen hair.”

Bunch of stuff starting to slip together, yeah?

Either way, at some point, Men or Nonmen (perhaps unintentionally) fucked it all up. I'm not sure if the "ritual of the Hundred" we hear the Boatman talk about is meant to be taken literally, but it could be. However, I have a strong feeling that the splitting of the Zero-Goddess came as a result of sentience (and also language, which I suspect in Earwa biology are one in the same). The Hundred Gods feed on conscious entities -- the soulless provide no sustenance. However, all of the most popular gods -- and thereby most powerful -- have a pretty sensible hierarchy based on their "proximity to the Zero-Goddess".

Yatwer is at the top of the chain, because ultimately you can't have life without birth (just one reason the Inchoroi are so fucked).

Gilgaol, naturally, comes right after, since War -- or more simply,  Death -- is part of the natural equation here.

I don't think Yatwer actually IS the Zero-Goddess, she's just the closest. The reason death comes so close after her is because they symbolize the "split" most acutely.

First off, great post.

Second, welcome to the Afflicted Few.

Now, I like your theory, but I have a feeling that God = Love is not the crux, perhaps just a facet.  Is it possible that The God of Gods is as Koringhus says, yet, at the same time, Love is yet the manifestation of that Zero-God?  I'm not sure why, but that seems to make more sense to me.

Indeed, I had made a tread earlier this year: Onkis and Siöl - A Copper Tree Connection and indeed, I think your points are well in line with that I earlier speculated and a great exposition of them.  I think there might even be more to it, but I'm not sure I am prepared to try to elucidate them enough yet to post.

Indeed, I am feeling like the Breaking of the Gates was the symbolic Breaking of the God, but I think it's real root is in Angeshraël meeting with "Husyelt" (who I believe was really Aurang) and the "lie" that convinced them to Break the Gates in the first place.  The Copper Tree Connection is aided by the fact that we now know that Siöl would have been the first to be overrun by Men, and that we already knew that Cû’jara-Cinmoi's ambition and constant grasping of more, could lead to the Copper Tree being what is now "moving them to forever grasp far more than they could hold" as Onkis is now said to be.

More later, need to organize my thoughts a bit more.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

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« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2016, 04:41:03 pm »
Awesome stuff as-always FB, welcome to the party!

re: the Breaking coinciding with the breaking of the God and creation of the Hundred, I've always assumed that the Nonmen worshipped the spaces between the Gods (plural) long before the Cuno-Inchoroi wars. But it could totally be that the practice was adopted after the Breaking.

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« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2016, 04:44:03 pm »
I think your right @profgrage. I think I realized that when I speculated it at Westeros, a little while later, lol. Yea, it doesn't seem the timing matches up.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2016, 05:23:08 pm »
Crackpot!:  In the Beginning, God was whole/Zero/Absolute.  The Cunuroi, in their attempts to understand God, somehow broke It into 100 Principles to better comprehend it, thus authoring their own (and everyone else's) Damnation.  They had no understanding of how to fix what they broke, so they began seeking Oblivion (the spaces between the Gods) to avoid their fate instead.  On Earwa, Original Sin was the butchering of God into It's constituent parts, a complication of what was simple.  All religion that followed was based on this series of events, thus reflecting only shards of the Truth that was forgotten.  And subsequently providing no escape from Damnation for all who followed.

The No-God could also be the Consult's attempt to re-assemble God, or parts of God, but in a way that is obviously incomplete/skewed toward their own salvation.

Told you it was a crackpot...
No whistling on the slog!

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« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2016, 05:32:50 pm »
Crackpot!:  In the Beginning, God was whole/Zero/Absolute.  The Cunuroi, in their attempts to understand God, somehow broke It into 100 Principles to better comprehend it, thus authoring their own (and everyone else's) Damnation.  They had no understanding of how to fix what they broke, so they began seeking Oblivion (the spaces between the Gods) to avoid their fate instead.  On Earwa, Original Sin was the butchering of God into It's constituent parts, a complication of what was simple.  All religion that followed was based on this series of events, thus reflecting only shards of the Truth that was forgotten.  And subsequently providing no escape from Damnation for all who followed.

I like it.  It could certainly be right, the Nonmen changed beleifs before, going from worshiping oblivion to worshiping Becoming, so it seems plausible.

The No-God could also be the Consult's attempt to re-assemble God, or parts of God, but in a way that is obviously incomplete/skewed toward their own salvation.

Told you it was a crackpot...

What if Koringhus is right, that the God of Gods is Zero?  The each God is ~1/100.  What if the No-God One?

I don't even know what that means. honestly, it's just some words I thought of.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 05:49:39 pm by H »
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2016, 05:34:46 pm »
Som, it's not that Crackpot. In fact, it's probably in some way, how it happened. We know that their are no creation myths, therefore at some point the belief of Men/Nonmen created them. Or, the Gods are just an extension of our base desires and therefore munch on the souls of those that act on those desires. I don't know if we'll actually be told when it happened, but that's as good a guess as any.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2016, 07:07:00 pm »
Som, it's not that Crackpot. In fact, it's probably in some way, how it happened. We know that their are no creation myths, therefore at some point the belief of Men/Nonmen created them. Or, the Gods are just an extension of our base desires and therefore munch on the souls of those that act on those desires. I don't know if we'll actually be told when it happened, but that's as good a guess as any.

Totally agree.  Som, that's just about the best theory I've seen for what's behind the peculiar metaphysics of Earwa.