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Aside, that which proceeds was alien... Nonmen quite literally proceeded men, even if not directly the men of Eanna since they came in and occupied their land, and therefore their histories (also, Tutelage).Another instance of why obliterate a history? Unless they are covering up the Tutelage in that sorcery is a largely chaotic element to quantify in terms of probability
P19 kellhus sees the script and is surprised the world is "older than the Dunyain"... uh, duh? I really get the feeling through a lot of this that it's not just Kellhus who is conceited, but really just all dunyain. They have some really weird gaps in the preternatural intelligence. Like, how to survive in the wild or thinking the wold is 2000 years old.
Still emaciated but wearing the furs of kings, the Dunyain chiselled the sorcerous runes from the walls and burned the Gran Vizier's books2)The first set of ruins Kellhus encounters:
But there was something in them, something not now, that bent Kellhus toward unfamiliar passions. When he brushed his hands across the stone, he knew he touched the breath and toil of Men--the mark of a destroyed people... Men... here in the stone. Old and untouched by the rigour of the Dunyain. Somehow they had resisted the sleep, had raised the work of hands against the wildnerness.
Who built this place?
"And in the gloom of a faltering fire, Leweth slowly drew Anasurimbor Kellhus into his own descending rhythms---slower breath, drowsy eyes"
Leweth (or one working through him) hypnotized Kellhus in this scene. Kellhus was just conditioned to think otherwise in the hypnosis.
I love the catch on Kellhus' blunder and egotism in thinking the forest belonged to him.
I just meant "makes it" in so far as survives the prologue despite his many blunders. First he nearly succumbs to the chaos of the forest, then he insists on tracking the Sranc and leaving the dogs behind despite Leweth's admonishment that the Sranc run down everything, and finally gets himself into a battle with a Nonman and ultimately is confronted with sorcery. At nearly every turn Kellhus is vastly underestimating his circumstances and only narrowly escaping. In his flight from the Sranc he even out distances the area of forest that he knows, relying on Leweth to direct him to the ruins.QuoteFor Kellhus the threat existed only in the fear manifested by the trapper. The forest was still his.This is quite the conceit, even for one of the Conditioned; especially one who very nearly became consumed by the chaos of it. The entire prologue seems like a series of colossal missteps by Kellhus. It's a wonder he makes it.Is it mere coincidence that a group of Sranc are hanging out around an ancient Kuniuric relic? Are they genuinely in there area solely to pilfer Leweth's runs?
On Kellhus' mistakes: realize he doesn't actually "make it" in the sense that he survives of his own ability. Leweth is the one who saves him, otherwise he is dead in the snow there. The greatest question is how deep does Moënghus' conditioning of Kellhus' path run? Alternatively, how guided is Kellhus by things Outside? I think that is a very deep tension in the whole first three books we should keep an eye on. On that, Leweth's finding him is no coincidence. Leweth being camped near those ruins is no accident. The Sranc being nearby is also no accident, as it brings Mekeritrig into (or back into) conditioned ground.
I'm willing to believe this. I don't know if I would necessarily claim that Moe directly has Mek traipsing up and down the North, but I wouldn't be surprised if a nearly identical scenario played out between the two during Moe's mission. Is Mek still aligned with the Consult these days?QuoteA powerful voice rang out in KuniuricIt seems odd to me that the Nonman's first attempt at communication would be in the language of a long dead civilization. Unless I'm mistaken and it is still used amongst the North? I almost wonder whether their encounter was as much happenstance as it appears. Compound this excerpt with the Sranc prints near the Anasurimbor stele and it seems less likely it was chance.
I think that since Scott let slip that the Nonman is Mekeritrig and also considering that Scott said it was a mistake to tell us that, means that one, there is no chance this meeting was just a coincidence, and, two, that the fact that it's Mekeritrig is significant. The reason he could be shouting in Kuniuric though is the same reason why he is prowling around Kuniuric ruins: he is reliving the past, trying to remember something, or someone.Quote"I see that you are a student. Knowledge is power, eh?"To what is he referring? A student of sorcery? The Gnosis? A student of the Logos? If the latter, wouldn't he know the Dunyain cult disappeared during the Apocalypse, presumably wiped out? How might it be the former if Kellhus bears no Mark?
This seems to speak to a Moe-Mek connection, perhaps he refers to the Dunyain? We don't know what that word actually means.
There is the possibility that when Moënghus left Ishual, he met Mekeritrig on the way. Or, more likely, is that Moënghus met him in the first place, prompting his dismissal from Ishual. Perhaps it is actually to Moënghus that Mekeritrig speaks when he says, "I can see his blood in your face" not Celemomas or any of the other Ancient Anasûrimbors.
"The flame twirled with abrupt incandescence."Something occurred to me about this, and it may be nohingt, but assuming that this scene does involve sorcery, whose is it and what type? I can't speculate at whose it might be without defining what type and even doing that makes for little clarification. Being that it is a manipulation of the flame itself, one might infer that it is Anagogic in nature, but how prevalent is Anagogic sorcery in the North? However, and I hate to draw a parallel across such a span, we later see Kellhus use the Gnosis for his little face in the fire trick. This seems a stretch even for me, but why shouldn't someone else be able to perform it? Is it a meta-Gnostic Cant? Someone decry this for me.
Across all five books variants on the word incandescent only and exclusively are used to accompany and denote the presence of sorcercy. The word is never used in the absence of sorcery except this line--which indicates sorcery is probably occurring unbeknownst to the POV. The prologue concludes with kellhus definitively wrong about sorcery and this use of incandescence is within the context of a conversation in which he is wrong about sorcery. Leweths concise evaluations of the supernatural is accurate on all counts per later evidence and kellhus is wrong on all counts, in other words a good place to slip in a kellhus error of not recognizing the presence of sorcery.
Ganrelka had only wept at Ishual, raged the way only an Emperor of nothing could rageInteresting little parallelism to the name of the trilogy
His food ran out, and he continued to walk. Everything---experience, analysis---became mysteriously sharpWouldn't being starved and exhausted dull or muddy one's experiential inputs?
The world had always been strange with significance to the trapper, but now it had become terrifyingFor some reason I feel like Leweth has a considerably more complicated past than his current situation would allude, but ultimately his role in the narrative is primarily as a cipher for Kellhus.
There were witches, Leweth had told him, whose urgings could harness the wild agencies asleep in the earth, animal, and treeI could simply be overlooking obvious references, but Akka's doll aside, I can't recall very many other mentions of witches pre-TAE and those are more a sanctioned sect than hedge magic. Are rogue magic users more openly accepted in the North in the absence of Inrithism?
And in the gloom of a faltering fire, Anasurimbor Kellhus slowly drew Leweth into his own descending rhythms---slower breath, drowsy eyesThought it was worth pointing out the first instance of Kellhus using hypnosis
On the far side of the stele he saw tracks in the snowIs it mere coincidence that a group of Sranc are hanging out around an ancient Kuniuric relic? Are they genuinely in there area solely to pilfer Leweth's runs?
For Kellhus the threat existed only in the fear manifested by the trapper. The forest was still his.This is quite the conceit, even for one of the Conditioned; especially one who very nearly became consumed by the chaos of it. The entire prologue seems like a series of colossal missteps by Kellhus. It's a wonder he makes it.
The ruins of a gate and a wall towered over the nearer slops. Beyond it, a dead oak of immense proportions bent against the skyAnother ancient, massive tree shows up at the Nonmen ruins in the South does it not? What fascination do the Nonmen have with trees?
So clear, this place. I only direct attention to it because it seems partially incongruous with his situation. Why, if one must necessarily fight a group of enemies, would he choose open ground? Arrow catching aside, it seems like a tactical mistake to me. I might be reading more into it than it warrants, but I can't help but feel that perhaps the very ground resonates with something in him.
A powerful voice rang out in KuniuricIt seems odd to me that the Nonman's first attempt at communication would be in the language of a long dead civilization. Unless I'm mistaken and it is still used amongst the North? I almost wonder whether their encounter was as much happenstance as it appears. Compound this excerpt with the Sranc prints near the Anasurimbor stele and it seems less likely it was chance
"I see that you are a student. Knowledge is power, eh?"To what is he referring? A student of sorcery? The Gnosis? A student of the Logos? If the latter, wouldn't he know the Dunyain cult disappeared during the Apocalypse, presumably wiped out? How might it be the former if Kellhus bears no Mark?
"For us life is always a...decision. For you...Well, let us just say it decides."Is the emphasis on it meant to signify something other than life? If so, what? Just something that struck me as odd as it seems he is ruminating on something as he speaks.
"This Sranc here---you could not pronounce its name---was our elju...our 'book,' you would say in your tongue. A most devoted animal. I'll be wrecked without it---for a time, anyway."What is an elju? What does it do? Why is it necessary that he have one in his entourage?
A furious incandescence...Sorcery? How could it be?Noted this because of locke's previous comment in regards to "incandescence." Also, can't Kellhus see the Mark? Whether or not it might be something he even recognizes as such, surely it would be something particularly out of place in the context of what he has come to learn in Ishual as well as with Leweth. It strikes me as something that should come up in his scrutinizing. Unless Kellhus develops a means to identify the Mark unrelated to be one of the Few?
Let me know if you're interested in actually developing a vampire story, I'd love a collab on that (or any other) project.Hit me up man. Even if we can't mesh and nothing comes of it, it would be really interesting and informative to see someone else's creative process and how they approach writing and narrative. Could be a lot of fun too.
A highly regular and reliable reading schedule will be the logistical backbone ensuring success of the reading endeavor.Just referencing the books I have on hand, for TDTCB all of the individual Parts tend to be roughly 100 pages, perhaps 15-20 more on average. Reading one Part per week will easily keep everyone on pace, in fact it should put you slightly ahead of the pace we've set. I'll take a closer look at the following books as we approach them, but a cursory glance at TWP looks as if a decent guideline would be Ch. 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-17 (slight stretch there for discussion's sake), 18-21, and then round it off 22-25.
The husband, racing to the hospital, was killed by an SUV running a red light. In the delivery room, the newborn drew his first breath, and wailed with the kind of anguish known only to the bereaved.I must have scrolled past this when it was first posted. That last bit is fantastic!
