The Slog TDTCB - Part One: Prologue & The Sorcerer [Spoilers]

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mrganondorf

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« Reply #120 on: December 19, 2015, 07:31:41 pm »
I at least don't see why a soul couldn't be placed in a skin spy doll instead of a wathi doll. Might require some out of the box thinking, but seems reasonable. One drawback is it would be marked, but nbd if you use it to spy on sorcerers.

you might (probably not) but you might even want a skinspy that has a soul of the Few but isn't marked.  if Maitha could spot a random person who was one of the Few but was never collected by the schools, rip the soul out, put in a skinspy, then you could have a pretty cool body guard.  put a chorae on that sonofabitch and you have an elite warrior who can see any big threats coming without giving away that they can see the threat.  Maitha could have one just sort of patrol the corridors

which brings me to--i wonder if skinspies can see each other as skinspies?  or smell?  lol, this is going to be the unintended upshot of eating sranc--the GO will smell like allies and the sranc will stop attacking

mrganondorf

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« Reply #121 on: December 19, 2015, 07:36:28 pm »
@ locke - masterful!  i'm sure you have hit the nail on the flat part at the top!

perhaps one amendment?  maybe Maitha fed Inrau info that Maitha intended to fall into Consult hands.  Maitha may have seen that bird flapping about sometime or another.

scene: Maitha is changing robes.  Sees a bird outside the window.  Thinks, "WTF is that bird masturbating???"

MSJ

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« Reply #122 on: December 20, 2015, 02:03:50 pm »

which brings me to--i wonder if skinspies can see each other as skinspies?  or smell?  lol, this is going to be the unintended upshot of eating sranc--the GO will smell like allies and the sranc will stop attacking

Well, isn't it in TTT where their with Cnaüir and they are communicating by screaming? Tilting their head back and opening their face and letting out many reed gasp? Also, I think you hit the nail on the head with smelling. Esme remarks that it felt like Sarcellus was smelling her in their last scene together in his pavilion.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

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« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2015, 10:52:05 pm »
I at least don't see why a soul couldn't be placed in a skin spy doll instead of a wathi doll. Might require some out of the box thinking, but seems reasonable. One drawback is it would be marked, but nbd if you use it to spy on sorcerers.

Cish leave no mark :)

Also everything we know about a skin-spy with a soul is provided by Uncle Holy.

I have no idea what process was used to ensoul the skinspy (with ensoul meaning: give the ability to use the Gnosis). We have seen one process already with moving souls from one body to another, we've also seen a shearing of a soul by Mek on Ses, at the walls of Dagluish. Or a statement of intent to do so.

The red-flag for me was the fact that uncovering that skin-spy is key to maitha and the mandate teaming up and going together to Shimeh. The timing of maithanet arriving is ostensibly cause he learned of the Skin-spy from others, but he is also on timetable to arrive just as the events of shimeh climax.

Seems a rather nice coincidence for team TTT.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 11:03:24 pm by themerchant »

themerchant

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« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2015, 11:04:44 pm »

which brings me to--i wonder if skinspies can see each other as skinspies?  or smell?  lol, this is going to be the unintended upshot of eating sranc--the GO will smell like allies and the sranc will stop attacking

Well, isn't it in TTT where their with Cnaüir and they are communicating by screaming? Tilting their head back and opening their face and letting out many reed gasp? Also, I think you hit the nail on the head with smelling. Esme remarks that it felt like Sarcellus was smelling her in their last scene together in his pavilion.

That's the captured one i believe, in fact "they believe" is what it is screaming i think. One the Scarlet Spire weepers.

H

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« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2015, 11:30:28 am »
I'll buy what Locke is selling, for the most part.  I'm definitely on board with him finding only what Maithanet wanted him to find.

I don't think Maithanet and Moe could have planned for the Consult killing him, but it happened and the end result is nearly the same.

As for the Simas agent, if we follow this along as Moe created, then was this possibly the first attempt, or an proof of concept for soul-transfer, a la, Meppa?
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #126 on: December 21, 2015, 03:46:22 pm »
I'll buy what Locke is selling, for the most part.  I'm definitely on board with him finding only what Maithanet wanted him to find.

I don't think Maithanet and Moe could have planned for the Consult killing him, but it happened and the end result is nearly the same.

As for the Simas agent, if we follow this along as Moe created, then was this possibly the first attempt, or an proof of concept for soul-transfer, a la, Meppa?


I was thinking the same thing. Last night I re-read the scene between Moe and Kellhus. And you know what? I think so. I've always been a fervent believer that Moe+Cnaüir=Meppa. And so much in that exchange points to Kellhus being duped yet again. The skull, Kellhus specifically saying that yes he is on conditioned ground. The skull, it all goes back to that for me. Its the point, even his exchange right before the kick, is where Kellhus is simply being played. Indeed 30 years Moe has had to condition this exchange. I don't want to go on to much more about this, but I have some new thoughts on this. Passion is what Moe was lacking, correct? He needed Kellhus just as much as he needed Cnaüir.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 03:49:28 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #127 on: December 21, 2015, 04:02:58 pm »
I'll buy what Locke is selling, for the most part.  I'm definitely on board with him finding only what Maithanet wanted him to find.

I don't think Maithanet and Moe could have planned for the Consult killing him, but it happened and the end result is nearly the same.

As for the Simas agent, if we follow this along as Moe created, then was this possibly the first attempt, or an proof of concept for soul-transfer, a la, Meppa?


I was thinking the same thing. Last night I re-read the scene between Moe and Kellhus. And you know what? I think so. I've always been a fervent believer that Moe+Cnaüir=Meppa. And so much in that exchange points to Kellhus being duped yet again. The skull, Kellhus specifically saying that yes he is on conditioned ground. The skull, it all goes back to that for me. Its the point, even his exchange right before the kick, is where Kellhus is simply being played. Indeed 30 years Moe has had to condition this exchange. I don't want to go on to much more about this, but I have some new thoughts on this. Passion is what Moe was lacking, correct? He needed Kellhus just as much as he needed Cnaüir.

The one thing that I think he might not have planned for is the chorae though, since he wouldn't, presumable been able to handle one/have access to one, which leads to my main question being, was the transfer complete?
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #128 on: December 21, 2015, 04:07:02 pm »
Honestly, and I am not very good at the metaphysics, I believe the chorae is what makes the transfer possible. Also, Moe would know that Cnaüir would've had his chorae.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 04:09:13 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #129 on: December 21, 2015, 04:17:10 pm »
Honestly, and I am not very good at the metaphysics, I believe the chorae is what makes the transfer possible. Also, Moe would know that Cnaüir would've had his chorae.

Plausible.  Would he have thought he'd use it?  Eh, yeah, probably on "second" thought.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

locke

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« Reply #130 on: December 22, 2015, 07:27:57 am »

Honestly, and I am not very good at the metaphysics, I believe the chorae is what makes the transfer possible. Also, Moe would know that Cnaüir would've had his chorae.
i agree the chorae probably made a transfer possible.

Think of it like serwes heart, think of serwe as exactly as she is always described: a reflection of cnaiurs feelings for and devotion to moenghus.  Her soul is tightly bound, linked, even, to kellhus and he takes advantage of it for the parlor trick of her heart.

Cnaiurs soul is tightly bound, linked, even to moenghus and he takes advantage of it for...

In this instance serwe might not be the most important character because she's holy etc, but the most important character because she provides a clean, concise and clear template upon which the reader can map cnaiur and untangle his jumbled, unreliable, manipulated perspective and more accurately interpret his and moenghus relationship and connection. And that mysterious final scene.

Serwes story is done, cnaiurs story is done. He ain't coming back.




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MSJ

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« Reply #131 on: December 22, 2015, 08:15:49 am »
Ok, so what do you think happened in that final scene? I love your takes on these kinds things.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Camlost

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« Reply #132 on: December 22, 2015, 04:06:38 pm »
After reading the Maithanet-Skaurus exchange, I'm a lot more willing to believe that Moe was checking up on Kellhus back in Leweth's cabin. Also, as I said before, I think there is more back story to Leweth's character that is not narratively essential. I'd be willing to bet Moe was complicit in the death of Leweth's wife and his subsequent flight into the wilderness

themerchant

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« Reply #133 on: December 25, 2015, 10:20:36 pm »
Just re-read the Mallahet emperor scene for the first time in years, a few things. the snakes are called "Salt" asp. Imperial sources seem quite convinced that Mallahet is really powerful in direct contradiction to what Kellhus thinks by the end of TTT.

When the Emperor meets with Mallahet, does he enter a probability trance, the emperor?

"Xerius paused, possessed by a calculating cold. He had always been at his canny best when wroth. Alternatives tumbled through his soul, most of them foundering on the sharp fact of Maithanet and his demonic cunning. He thought of Calmemunis and his hatred of his cousin, Nersei Proyas,heir to the throne of Conrinya.

And then he understood."

locke

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« Reply #134 on: December 28, 2015, 01:35:53 am »
Just re-read the Mallahet emperor scene for the first time in years, a few things. the snakes are called "Salt" asp. Imperial sources seem quite convinced that Mallahet is really powerful in direct contradiction to what Kellhus thinks by the end of TTT.

When the Emperor meets with Mallahet, does he enter a probability trance, the emperor?

"Xerius paused, possessed by a calculating cold. He had always been at his canny best when wroth. Alternatives tumbled through his soul, most of them foundering on the sharp fact of Maithanet and his demonic cunning. He thought of Calmemunis and his hatred of his cousin, Nersei Proyas,heir to the throne of Conrinya.

And then he understood."
No, moenghus probably just made his face look like proyas and calmemunis in turn.

But we're probably supposed to note how xerius thoughts are directed towards a pre determined end point by the literary similarity to the probability trance.  Note how kellhus uses blunt cudgel  emotions to force people into accepting what he wants (all while kellhus contradictory thinks that it'd be more effective if they thought of it themselves), we're seeing here how different, subtle and effective an actual dunyain is at guiding a soul without disturbing a grain of sand in the process. Kellhus has to much ego and me so special desire to be the smartest in the room to ever allow an encounter to play out without figuring out a way to flatter himself as the bestest at the same time. moenghus makes xerius feel like a dunyain when guiding xerius thoughts and xerius finds it intoxicating.  Kellhus is intoxicated by the same.