[TGO SPOILERS] Favorite and least favorite POVs? (all books)

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Titan

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« on: June 25, 2016, 04:59:27 am »
New forum member here, who just finished the currently published 5 books, and about to start a re-read in preparation for TGO.
(If this is in the wrong sub-forum, feel free to move it, mods!)

After my first read, here are my favorite POVs:
 - Achamian (the true main protagonist of the series - if there is one)
 - Sorweel (the hidden white luck warrior? - my own pet theory that I may post about later, if TGO has't disproved or proved it by that time)  :)
 - Kellhus (for he is the kwisatz haderach!)  ;)
 - Mimara

My least favorite POVs:
 - Kelmomas (aaargh, so... frustrating... to read through, my number one most hated character)
 ... (a big gap)...
 - Esmenet (especially in the Aspect Emperor books)
 - Ikurei Conphas (not a fan)
 - Serwe (reasons are obvious)

Any agreement or disagreements?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 05:07:56 am by Titan »

Somnambulist

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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 02:08:54 pm »
Akka is also my favorite character, hands down.  Mimara and Akka together in TAE are my favorite POVs.

I actually quite liked Conphas.  He was my favorite "love to hate" character.

On first read of TJE and TWLW, Esmenet was among my least favorite, as well, though I liked her in PON.  However, after subsequent reads, her plight became much clearer to me.  I found myself relating her to her younger self and sympathizing with how far she has had to evolve to survive, surrounded by the vicious politics of the New Empire.  Not to mention her god-like husband, brother-in-law, and children.  I think she's awesome.

No love for Cnaiur? :)  He was one of the best characters.  Loved his POVs.
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Titan

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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2016, 04:18:05 pm »
About Esmenet... I actually did really like her POVs in the first trilogy, but as the emperor wife she does nothing for me. Or perhaps it is simply the associative effect with Kelmomas which drags her down. :-)

I did find Cnaiur very interesting, even though he initially draws an awful lot from the "horse lord barbarian" fantasy trope. But his changing interaction with Kellhus was certainly a highlight of the trilogy. He just isn't my favorite.

themerchant

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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2016, 04:50:56 pm »
Cnaiur is my fav

Angrashael (the dude at the end of TWP) is my least favourite. Though that's to do with what he is seeing rather than thinking.

Madness

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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2016, 05:48:08 pm »
New forum member here, who just finished the currently published 5 books, and about to start a re-read in preparation for TGO.
(If this is in the wrong sub-forum, feel free to move it, mods!)

Consensus has been that General Earwa is open spoilers up and including the latest published volume. For the time being we ask that any TGO-excerpt discussion take place in the TGO subforum: probably this will extend until general release worldwide (which still seems to be Sep 29 in UK :( ).
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The Great Scald

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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 01:33:27 am »
Favorite:

Cnaiür (of course)
Mimara (a well-written Messiah figure, with a present-tense narration that is really refreshing)
Nersei Proyas (the well-intentioned fanatic who just wants to believe)
The White-Luck Warrior (an experiment with time)
Ikurei Conphas (the amoral psychopath in a world where morality is real)
Ikurei Xerius (a bit of comic relief)

Least Favorite:

Kelmomas (diabolical genius children aren't interesting or cute, just obnoxious)
Suh-Suh-Sorweel (just kill yourself already)
Serwë (very believable character, but eternal victims aren't very compelling to read about)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 01:36:11 am by Auriga »

The Great Scald

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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 01:15:29 pm »
After finishing The Great Ordeal, and all the character development and changes therein, this list badly needs to be revised:

New Favorites:

Sorweel (his bildungsroman arc in Ishterebinth was one of the best in TSA, and the character genuinely developed - this is very rare in the masturbatory genre of fantasy lit. Sorweel convincingly developed as a person, his scenes with the Nonmen were haunting, and his "boy in an alien land becomes a hero" story was both a real classic and very refreshing to read.)

Koringhus (fascinating both as a character and as a viewpoint of the universal principle - the Tao, the Absolute, the multiverse, or what have you - because this holistic reality is so alien to his own worldview.)


Least Favorite:

Malowebi (verbal masturbator, token black, does nothing of significance, exists only to be a witness. Any other character could've stood in for him. His last scenes were good, but the Malowebi-Ciphrang scene would've worked as an one-shot epilogue.)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 01:17:39 pm by The Great Scald »

Triskele

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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 03:37:03 am »
Random thoughts without giving a full list:

I loved Sorweel's POV in TGO, but I attribute that more to the Bakker's very clever use of the Cauldron; it's not that Sorweel is such an interesting character.

I don't much care for the Kelmomas chapters at all.  That's my least favorite main POV, and I don't like Esmi much either.

Agree that Conphas is a great love to hate type of POV.  He's a massive dick, but he's fun as Hell to read and to have in the story.  Bakker himself has said something along these lines or that he's a character that is one of the most fun to write even if one doesn't identify with him. 


Charvuu

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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2016, 02:42:01 am »
Oh lord, I do always dread the Esmenet POVs, although I dread the Kelmomas ones more. I just get a bit bored when the story shifts to Momemn, as opposed to The Great Ordeal itself, or Ishterbinth, or wherever Akka and Mimara at throughout the books.

Although, in saying that, chapter 16 was my favorite chapter of the entire series, which surprisingly was at Momemn.


My favorite POVs throughout the books were definately those of Issiral and of Kellhus; Issiral's were just really fun to read from a literary standpoint, and Kellhus' were great because they were always so full of revalation.

Odium

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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 12:03:21 am »
Favorite

Cnauir - particularly his first chapters in The Darkness That Comes Before. I often find myself rereading his first scenes in the battle that devastated the Scylvendi: Is there no cock among you? The fact that this develops into a fantastic character study with more than one foray into the conception of homosexuality in such a society just makes it better.
Consult umbrella PoV (Skinspies, Synthese) - one of my favorite chapters is (I think?) in TWP or TTT where the Synthese just circles the skies, pondering the "crumbs" of the destruction it wraught in ages past. I also just generally love the way Bakker addresses these characters.
Seswatha - the dreams of the Incu-Holoinas are fascinating.
Koringhus - I really
Conphas - I found him another fascinating character, as (imo) were all the mortals that could resist the Dunyain. One of my favorite quotes in the series is the one where Kellhus humiliates him verbally and his arrogance is so overwhelmingly ingrained in him that he "smiles as if a leper had insulted his beauty." The resolution of his character arc with Cnauir was also very nice.
Ishterebinth arc in general - definitely a high point of the second trilogy for me.

Least favorite

Proyas
Esmenet
Kelmomas, except for a couple of chapters about his observation of the narindar
Serwe (for reasons the Great Scald mentions, despite her being a very compelling character)

I'm not very convinced by Bakker's female PoVs in general. I've read extensively about what he has been going for with TSA and feminism in general, but I can't help but shake my head at his execution in a lot of places. Esmenet in general just strikes me as a weak character, as I actually thought Serwe was far more compelling. Proyas, while having very interesting development, just doesn't resonate much with me... and Kelmomas just has a very hard PoV to work through, and thus far has had very little payoff. I really liked his first scene with the statue of Ajokli and the beetle, and (like I mentioned) the way he goes mad observing the narindar.

Onrack

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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 05:31:59 pm »
Favourite

Conphas - His utter narcissism made him a lot of fun.
Kelmomas - I really enjoy this sick little bastard. The connection with Ajokli provides an interesting new wrinkle as well
Kellhus - Don't think this really needs explaining.
Mimara - I really enjoy her detached perspective on things, as well as the way she's develloped these past few books.

Least Favourite

Serwe - An exceedingly repetitive and uninteresting character. Shouldn't have been a POV at all I don't think.
Sorweel - There are times when I really enjoy his perspective, others where he can descend into irritating self-pity. I thought he was coming around to being a good character in White Luck Warrior, but then we have that last chapter...Ishterebinth seems to have him back on track at least


The Sharmat

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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2016, 04:50:30 am »
I find the view on Esmenet interesting since unlike others I found her Aspect Emperor chapters much more engrossing and sympathetic than her Prince of Nothing ones.

Favorites:
Cnaiur. A joy every time. His bombastic rage and torment even when alone, and his refreshing quality of knowing Kellhus is a complete bullshitter when no one else does.

Mimara. Really strong character in general. Just the right balance of weakness and overcoming given her background.

Serwa. Fascinating look at a half-Dunyain. Hope to see more of her.

Kelmomas. I may have a problem but I enjoy his psychotic antics.

Aurang. Nice combination of old-school fantasy supervillain and impotent rage.

Least favorites Are pretty much both ones that sserve a single narrative purpose and little else. So Serwe, who's pretty much just there to be anti-Dunyain for a thematic point, and pre-White-Luck Sorweel. I get that the angst is entirely logical and necessary for his character, but it just gets painful to read after awhile.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 04:52:57 am by The Sharmat »

gtownwr

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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 04:05:44 pm »
Favorites:
Kellhus, Serwa, Sorweel in TGO, Cnauir

Least Favorites:
Mimara, Sorweel pre TGO, Kelmomas (but only because I didn't want him to succeed, and he kept annoying succeeding or escaping)

I think that I am in the minority for not liking Mimara, but she strikes me as shallow, petty, bitter, spiteful, and the fact that SHE has the JE and sees herself as saved and everyone else around her as damned just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.  While TGO expounded on that in a satisfying way, I just have that bad first taste that tarnishes her sections somewhat for me.

Monkhound

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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2016, 09:08:23 pm »
I think that I am in the minority for not liking Mimara, but she strikes me as shallow, petty, bitter, spiteful, and the fact that SHE has the JE and sees herself as saved and everyone else around her as damned just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.  While TGO expounded on that in a satisfying way, I just have that bad first taste that tarnishes her sections somewhat for me.

I have something similar about Mimara: I liked her POV in TJE and WLW. But in TGO, one passage after the other made me dislike her more and more. When I finally came to the conclusion as to the why, it was because of the self-righteousness radiating in her. By the time I got to that, I realized it had been there all along, but the more she "gives into" the Judging Eye (and/or the Qirri), the more intense the tone of self-righteousness gets. Comparable in a way to the way I felt Titirga is described/talks in TFS.

Favored passages:
Akka (all books)
Kellhus (all books)
Sorweel (starting from the Ten-yoke Legion)
Cnaiür
Saubon and/or Proyas (all books)

Least favored:
Meppa (except the showdown with Kellhus)
Kelmomas
Mimara
Cuts and cuts and cuts...

coobek

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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2016, 03:40:35 pm »
I have a feeling I was doing this already  :D

Like:
Cnaiur
Cleric
Akka - for the 1st series
Kelhus
Conphas
Captain
Iyokus
Maybe Annasurimbor Serwe
Meppa
The new Dunyain shortlived guy

Do not like:
Kelmomas - hate this guy
Psatma Nannaferi
White-Luck concept
Malowebi after TUC
Sorweel - even after TUC
Proyas
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 03:42:14 pm by coobek »