[TGO SPOILERS] The DREAMS

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Yellow

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« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2016, 07:19:33 am »
I got the impression that "salvation" was just when the god you worshipped just treats you marginally less shittily than the "damned" ones.
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JRControl

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« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2016, 11:25:11 am »
Based on some phrasing of Aurang my belief is that there is salvation where the noble/moral and self-sacrificing get to enjoy themselves, but that is just another spectrum of emotions for Gods to feed on. Spices essentially for the wheat and meat.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

MSJ

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« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2016, 04:34:17 pm »
There is Salvation, Koringhus found it and Mimara is Holy. Kellhus, I believe is fighting for the Salvation of Earwa. Or, at the very least, to end damnation.

“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Monkhound

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« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2016, 07:52:25 pm »
There is Salvation, Koringhus found it and Mimara is Holy.

That would mean the Absolute is Salvation and therefore holy.
I'm inclined to agree, since Korringhus, the boy (referred to as the most blessed fraction on page 408. Italics are not mine) and the hundredth stone must be linked to Kellhus somehow.
Cuts and cuts and cuts...

Titan

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« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2016, 03:01:28 am »
About the dreams - And why why are seeing perspectives outside of Seswatha in TGO - I'm currently re-reading TJE, and Akka actually has his first dream from a 3rd person point of view.
(where the Wracu are attacking the library, and suddenly Akka is dreaming from a more omniscient point of view, wondering where Seswatha is)

So I didn't realize it during my first read, but these non-Seswatha dreams are nothing new.

Doubt

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« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2016, 10:33:10 pm »
Yeah they're new to this 'trilogy'. Do ye think Seswatha is the cause of these new visions and he has a plan, or something else? I just assumed it was Seswatha's doing the whole time but it could easily be someone else.
Cuts and cuts and cuts.

MSJ

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« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2016, 11:11:27 pm »
Well, clear back in TDTCB in the first dream we ever see, Akka sees his self in the mirror instead of Seswatha. And, while he notes there are discrepancies in the Dreams, that he'd never experienced or heard of something like that (in the Slog of Slog thread I quote it and there is discussion on it).

From the Bakker thread he made at Westeros, someone suggested when Kellhus spoke to Seswatha in TWP to gain access to the Gnosis, that maybe he might be manipulating the Dreams, Bakker gave a wink emoji. Which if that is the case, would be disappointing. I don't like that Kellhus and no one else is involved in these events. I want something to be outside his control. But, oh well, it is what it is.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Yellow

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« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2016, 05:45:43 am »
Yeah, that was me. I've always thought this was at play.
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MSJ

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« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2016, 06:36:51 am »
Yeah, that was me. I've always thought this was at play.

Yea, it's debated about a lot. Its makes sense, and I can see where there is a reason for it, Kellhus guiding Akka where he needs him. As I said before, I always hoped that there was an element, besides the Consult or 100, outside of Kellhus's control. I guess there is....Cnaüir. And, I can still him being bit of a wild card in what role he ultimately plays. Anyhow, Bakker's wink sure does feel as good as confirmation to me that Kellhus is manipulating the dreams.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2016, 05:39:16 pm »
Bakker has said elsewhere that there are some secrets he just won't talk about, the kellhus/akka hypnosis thing is one of them. I'd not read to far into a winky face.
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Frail

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« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2016, 01:00:37 am »
So much of the plot goes over my head, but I wonder where exactly do the Seswatha dreams come from? Has this been explained? I know Mimara says something about the relevancy of time, compared to what he has dreamed, (Akka meets Koringhus and dreams of being Celmomas.)

I think Golgotterath is the location of the dreams. Perhaps the Consult have somehow kept alive Seswatha or Nau-Cayuti and the closer a mandate schoolmen, they are able to reach them through dreams. This would explain why Achamian experienced so many differences in the dreams on the frontier so far removed from Atyersus.

MSJ

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« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2016, 01:35:13 am »
So much of the plot goes over my head, but I wonder where exactly do the Seswatha dreams come from? Has this been explained? I know Mimara says something about the relevancy of time, compared to what he has dreamed, (Akka meets Koringhus and dreams of being Celmomas.)

I think Golgotterath is the location of the dreams. Perhaps the Consult have somehow kept alive Seswatha or Nau-Cayuti and the closer a mandate schoolmen, they are able to reach them through dreams. This would explain why Achamian experienced so many differences in the dreams on the frontier so far removed from Atyersus.

The Dreams of Mandate Schoolmen come from the ritual called "The Grasping". It involves Seswatha's shriveled up heart. As for Akka's dreams that make him a Prophet of the Past, well your guess is as good as any.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,