[Odium]

It certainly wasn't the most graphic scene, but the image of Nin'ciljiras ladling oil over his head really stuck with me. Otherwise, Kellhus' calm return to his Dunyain self after encountering the golden coffer at Dagliash was pretty chilling.

The writing that glowers upon it... What does it say?
...
That not everyone can be saved.
...
What do you say?
...
His Saviour turned to him, smiled what might have counted as an apology had they played number-sticks.
That this is a good thing.

[nicodante]

The descriptions of the sranc wandering the darkness of the thousand thousand halls, I actually felt sorry for them :/


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[Titan]

It certainly wasn't the most graphic scene, but the image of Nin'ciljiras ladling oil over his head really stuck with me. Otherwise, Kellhus' calm return to his Dunyain self after encountering the golden coffer at Dagliash was pretty chilling.

The writing that glowers upon it... What does it say?
...
That not everyone can be saved.
...
What do you say?
...
His Saviour turned to him, smiled what might have counted as an apology had they played number-sticks.
That this is a good thing.

Yeah, that was a great and chilling scene. But a great one, IMO.

But on topic, my most disturbing ones:

- the rape of Proyas. It was written so ambiguously - like Bakker was trying to trick us - that I wasn't even sure it physically happened until he told Saubon. And the fact that Kellhus did it not out of a sexual need but as a way to challenge Saubon - not Proyas - makes it even more twisted somehow.

- the Emwanna at the Nonman mansion, so disturbingly described. Horror-esque, but also recalling H.g.wells "the time machine" in how the are a combination of the worst aspects of the Eloi *and* Morlock.

- the whale mothers. 'Nuff said.

- the Monemn chapters. More for a meta reason, as they are by far the most of a chore to read through. Can't they all just die already. :-D

[spacemost]

- the rape of Proyas. It was written so ambiguously - like Bakker was trying to trick us - that I wasn't even sure it physically happened until he told Saubon. And the fact that Kellhus did it not out of a sexual need but as a way to challenge Saubon - not Proyas - makes it even more twisted somehow.

Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

[Cosi]

Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

I dunno. I read zero joy in that. No emotion at all, really. The language Bakker uses is very non-natural and removed. Within the story, it seemed pretty clearly a part of Kellhus's plan to prepare Proyas and/or Saubon to lead the Ordeal.

[Titan]

Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

I dunno. I read zero joy in that. No emotion at all, really. The language Bakker uses is very non-natural and removed. Within the story, it seemed pretty clearly a part of Kellhus's plan to prepare Proyas and/or Saubon to lead the Ordeal.

Indeed. Kellhus seemed to get no "joy" out of it, it was all to manipulate Saubon and Proyas. No emotion was involved, but I'm not sure it makes it better or worse.

[Cnaiür vs Karsa vs Drogo]

How about Inrilatus fucking Theliopa and calling her Sranky. That shit turned my stomach. 

[Triskele]

Sranky.

Has a more devastating insult ever been levied?

[Madness]

Got some major Inchoroi vibes from this, too. They seem to enjoy sodomizing people.

I dunno. I read zero joy in that. No emotion at all, really. The language Bakker uses is very non-natural and removed. Within the story, it seemed pretty clearly a part of Kellhus's plan to prepare Proyas and/or Saubon to lead the Ordeal.

Indeed. Kellhus seemed to get no "joy" out of it, it was all to manipulate Saubon and Proyas. No emotion was involved, but I'm not sure it makes it better or worse.

Worse. There is an absolutely horrifying passage - gave me reminiscence of Neuropath - where Proyas is listening to Kayutas talk about trying to figure out his father and Proyas is trying hide the thoughts of Kellhus the Place for what Kayutas will see in his face:

"Of course it was Thelli who figured it all out," Kayutas continued. "She realized that we could not solve Father because he did not exist, that Father was, in point of fact, no one at all..."

A cold tongue licked the Exalt-General's spine.

Now that could just Proyas having shivers... or a real and very frightening memory .

How about Inrilatus fucking Theliopa and calling her Sranky. That shit turned my stomach. 

Yeah... that bothers me. I don't believe in baby-proofing the world but - personally knowing survivors of abuse - I sometimes think Bakker's writing should come with one giant trigger-warning.

[H]

How about Inrilatus fucking Theliopa and calling her Sranky. That shit turned my stomach. 

Yeah... that bothers me. I don't believe in baby-proofing the world but - personally knowing survivors of abuse - I sometimes think Bakker's writing should come with one giant trigger-warning.

Not that it triggered me or anything, but I never even batted an eye at anything that ever happened in any of the books.

That part made my stomach drop and I had to read it twice to be sure I understood correctly.

Poor Theli, I guess I really did like her...

[Cuttlefish]

The whale-mothers thing reminded me a lot of daemoncubala from Warhammer 40k; it sorta amused me, because me and a friend had this recurring joke that Bakker should be the one to write 40k literature. I found it disappointing, though; since Kellhus chose Esmenet for her intellect, making her the only one capable of bearing his children, I thought Dunyain woman would be these immensely smart philosophers like the rest of the Dunyain. I suppose it makes sense that the purely pragmatical Dunyain would regard women as breeding tools, but even then, I can't help but wonder if the whale mothers were just as smart as the men - untapped potential, maybe.

Thelli's death was the thing that appalled me the most. I liked her a lot. Why did she have to die?

[Madness]

The whale-mothers thing reminded me a lot of daemoncubala from Warhammer 40k; it sorta amused me, because me and a friend had this recurring joke that Bakker should be the one to write 40k literature.

I wish Duskweaver was still a frequent poster, may he return sooner rather than later. He was another poster who constantly noted analogues between Warhammer 40K and Earwa. I've never heard Bakker mention it but it makes sense its something he's been exposed to in his life of dungeon mastering.

[themerchant]

Sranky.

Has a more devastating insult ever been levied?

probably more of a trigger than a standalone reaction, it is inri we're talking about.

[Onrack]

Just finished the book, definitely worth the wait, my god. I'd say that this book has more concentrated awful than probably the whole first trilogy combined.

-Saubon being dragged to hell. Felt kind of bad for the guy even though he was obviously an asshole, especially since he'd just started believing.
-Normally you don't find too many likeable characters in this series, but Bakker introduced two in this book and killed em both off, in Koringhus and Oinaral. When Koringhus jumped, damn that got me. Oirinal being killed by his own father as well.
-The entire descent into the depths of Ishteribinth. I don't think anyone's ever devised a more awful fate for a fictional race. The whole idea that that is better than damnation makes it all the worse.
-Proyas being raped, of course. I always kind of root for the guy, very surprised he survived this book in all honesty.
-Thelli and Inrilatas.
-The descriptions following the nuke were pretty vivid. Really, most of the Great Ordeal in this book was horrific stuff to read. Made Mimira and Achamian's adventures seem like a fucking lighthearted subplot.

I'm sure there's so much more but I'm reeling a bit. Now to read all the existing discussion.

[Onrack]

I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing.

Bakker's repeated use...of ellipses...and italics to emphasize profundity.

Ha! There were a couple of moments where that got to me too. Loads of chapters ending on dramatic, short sentences

"And we are the bread" dun Dun DUN