[TUC Spoilers] Ch. 1 & 2 Excerpts

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themerchant

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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2017, 04:31:43 am »
There isn't a quote in the preview that says "To save Mankind..." or not that i can find.

The only thing i can find is "you... and all mankind" in context of why he is keeping people ignorant cause it's innocence to shield them from Sin.

I'm not talking about what the interpretation is, I can't find that quote, so i'm asking where about it is in the preview? As I can't find it.


themerchant

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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2017, 04:34:07 am »
So you deceive me, keep me ignorant, to save me from sin?”

“You ... and all mankind.”

is what i can find.

Hiro

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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2017, 09:06:05 am »
So, in TJE, when Psatma is transforming her and the WLW, she says, well croaks:

"There is the knife that cuts," she croaked, "and there is the sea that drowns. Always we have been the latter…"

While the meaning of the sea is used differently here, it does feel, having read TUC chapter 1, as a seed to Momemn being swallowed by the sea.
Mystery denotes darkness

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2017, 12:23:46 pm »
So you deceive me, keep me ignorant, to save me from sin?”

“You ... and all mankind.”

is what i can find.
Good topic for Saturday.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

MSJ

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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2017, 01:16:14 pm »
So you deceive me, keep me ignorant, to save me from sin?”

“You ... and all mankind.”

is what i can find.

Right. Its all right in that same scene. About him being the Monster mankind needs to save them from sin, by keeping them ignorant. Which is intriguing, considering how much we have thoughout the entirety of the series about ignorance being holy. Also, during Moe and Kellhus meeting, Moe says, "You taught them ignorance". Which could be the source of the haloes, their ignorance.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 01:36:01 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

SalvatorDunyain

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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2017, 12:49:20 am »
Thanks for the link. This is badass.  Just a few thoughts:

× Did anyone notice in the What has come before part it said Moe fled Ishual.

× Really think Kellhus knew his kid was f'ed up the whole time.

×Cnaiur and Moe Jr. will reunite

×Kellhus loves Esmi,  in some unfathomable  (to us) way. He knows something we don't.

×Kellhus will not kill his son, Esmi will.

× Sorweel may kill Moe Jr. Perhaps in protecting Serwa

×These books fucking rock.

incuroi

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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2017, 05:13:32 am »
well we got our whale-mother answer. 

themerchant

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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2017, 08:47:08 am »
What was the whale mother question?

Francis Buck

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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2017, 10:43:49 am »
ORANGES

MSJ

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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2017, 02:31:18 pm »
What was the whale mother question?

Yes, please enlighten incoroi!
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Anwurat

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« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2017, 10:22:00 pm »
I think he may have read last year's excerpt by accident.  ;)

Francis Buck

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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2017, 06:41:14 am »
Whale Mothers breed Dunyain. Esmenet bred Dunyain. The Ark is described as a once living thing, has qualities both aquatic and whale-esque (Nau-Cayuti trying to break a gigantic rib bone in the Seswatha dream). The Ark/Esmi is the Darkness in which Kellhus can "hide".

The Ark is a Tekne super-whale mother?

I wonder if the Ark itself is in fact still a Sentient force, possibly manifest as Shauriatas? Would fit into the idea of a Demirugic figure, an entity which (through ignorance and blindness) has mistakenly come to believe it created the World...

Francis Buck

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« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2017, 06:45:31 am »
Also, it's funny. In the AMA Bakker seemed surprised that (some) people didn't realize that Momas was the cause of the earthquake, rather than Yatwer. I wonder Kellhus's line here is meant to clarify that, which indicates not only that Momas is sending the tsunami, but also that he was responsible for the earthquake as well.

Maybe the Gods are so tricky to figure out partially because the World is seemingly a separate entity, or perhaps an amalgamation of all the Gods. Affixing "earth powers" to Yatwer felt straightforward given all the symbolism, but then she isn't an earth goddess, rather a fertility one. A subtle but important distinction. Of course, it also makes sense in retrospect that Momas and the sea would be responsible (if such a word can even be applied to the Gods) for the quake/tsunami, but it does make me re-think my view of the Gods in general.

And if the World is a separate entity, have we observed its presence? Is it the Zero-God Koringhus apprehends? Is it the Darkness that comes before? Shauriatas? Or just the God of Gods itself -- and if so, what the hell is the Zero-God then? Let alone the No-God.

Many great forces are in play to some degree, most of which we know little to nothing about, and that's excluding the regular old Gods and Ciphrang and Wights and so on. I feel like some these things are the same entity under different names/interpretations (the Zero-God certainly seems like the "expression" of the Darkness, in some sense), but who can say?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 06:49:56 am by FB »

Hoary

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« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2017, 08:37:14 am »
I feel like there is a hand in movement behind the Judging Eye, same one that sent Mimara to Akka, same one that is pointing to some things being more holy than others (why are snakes holy?). There is an agenda here that could be the God of Gods, or it could be the No-God. Who was it that made Akka a prophet of the past?

At some point in his dreams the No God speaks to him, so I think it may be that it IS the No-God that is behind Akka's quest, pushing them against Kellhus (unless it IS Kellhus).

The Judging eye, the No God, the Zero God, at least 2 of these are probably the same.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2017, 05:37:42 am »
I feel like there is a hand in movement behind the Judging Eye, same one that sent Mimara to Akka, same one that is pointing to some things being more holy than others (why are snakes holy?). There is an agenda here that could be the God of Gods, or it could be the No-God. Who was it that made Akka a prophet of the past?

At some point in his dreams the No God speaks to him, so I think it may be that it IS the No-God that is behind Akka's quest, pushing them against Kellhus (unless it IS Kellhus).

The Judging eye, the No God, the Zero God, at least 2 of these are probably the same.

Good thoughts, and indeed I agree that there are several areas where it seems like a character or entity is playing both sides. I actually feel that Seswatha may indeed be another one of these "higher entities", and that in some sense, all who have touched the Heart basically ARE Seswatha, to a degree. The part in TTT with Kellhus hypnotizing Akka has a lot of interesting dialogue indicating such a thing (or maybe not, everything's up in the air now.

I do agree that some of these entities will collapse into each other. Zero-God/TJE seem like a given, and I suspect it may infact be the God, as Kellhus describes it to Proyas throughout TGO.

Whether those things are also the No-God, I am less certain, but I would not be surprised. A number of the No-God's characteristics seem akin to what would happen if the Daimos (possibly a Gnostic, or Meta-Gnostic, version of the Daimos) were applied in an attempt to "summon the God", and perhaps capture it.