The Cants of Compulsion aren't going to save the Consult from being subsumed by the Mutilated. The Consult is completely and utterly vulnerable to being subsumed by the Dunyain by its very nature of existence. Once the captured Dunyain are shown the Inverse Fire and convert their formidable gifts are added to the cause. From that point on its inevitable that they'll learn sorcery and form the dominate core of the Consult. The only way to really avoid this is to capture them, interrogate them, and then kill them which requires arrogant half mad immortals to have 20-20 foresight and throw away the shiny new weapon that has fallen into their hands.
Honestly, I didn't like the idea that Shauriatas might have compelled the Mutilated at all at first but...
According to Koringhus, the Dunyain had no concept of sorcery the moment they witnessed it at Ishual. It was an immediate inversion of at least Koringhus' worldview, a prodigy among them. Given the lessons Aurang learned from not listening to Cnaiur and subsequently being bested by Kellhus in PON, much less whatever wariness the Consult might have gained from watching Kellhus' otherwise inexplicable rise, I'm fairly sure the Consult wouldn't take any chances with capturing Dunyain. Perhaps, for those Nonmen who might remember, there was an order to "Compel on sight."
Again though, I'm personally still dealing with the Mutilated sans thoughts of "possession" by Shauriatas.
Also I don't believe the Sranc numbers have anything to do with the Mutilated. Their numbers are huge, but they are drawn from huge expanses of territory occupied by creatures that exist low down on the food chain. The combined casualties is still probably in the single digit millions, which is scary and impressive, but not unreasonable given the vast swath of territory under consideration.
Agreed, I don't think the Mutilated would waste time producing more Sranc. But as mentioned, I think we safely attribute at least some of TAE's Tekne novelties to the Mutilated - the Sayothi Skin-Spy, perhaps the Ursranc, the Tekne-Nuke, etc.
2) They wanted to recruit them - I hadn't thought of this, but this has some merit, I think. Could be they wanted to see if they were damned likewise and enlist them to their common cause once the Dunyain were "educated" on hell. The war on Ishual was impressive, quite the campaign taking what appeared to me in the text massive losses ( a 1,000 sorcerers/magi/shriekers? ) and wanted some of that logos stuff on their side. Seems like you’all are leaning in this direction, appears I need to do a re-read.
Some of you'all, not this guy
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Perhaps that was the Consult's thought but as I said above I think that unlikely. Also, this raises more questions, given that the Mutilated sustained their mutilations somewhere. If torture than that's hardly a recruitment tactic as the Consult have the Inverse Fire. If capture during/after the Siege of Ishual, how did the Consult achieve that, if not Compulsion?
On a related note, the numbers of singers that assaulted Ishual seem very suspect to me. The way Koringhus describes it, there were far more sorcerers than we see at Golgotterath, when the Consult fends off Kellhus and his - huge - army.
It seems to me that that was the work of the Ishterebinth Quya, rather than the strictly Consult Erratics mulling around at Golgotterath.
The thing is, like, are there any indications for this? I've been back and forth on this topic in my mind. On one hand I can see why people might say that Shae is in the Mutilated. Their cyclic speech, "the truth spoke with but one soul", the weak spirit of the Dûnyain etc. On the other hand the "undone" comment really throws me off. I had this thought earlier, that he might've become a Ciphrang, but that makes even less sense...
Lol, I'd be the first to dismiss theories like Baby-Kellhus and Shauriatas-the-Mutilated. Too many moving parts, though Bakker has demonstrated proficiency in uniquely combining his sandbox, as per the Amiolas. The former has that "souls bounce" from Sarl and the latter has that "Sorcerous Compulsion" and "the Soul-Trapping-Sorceries."
For my bet, Bakker seem interested in contemporary commentary, in addition to the anachronistic, and critiquing the "Immortality-through-Upload-Salvation" seems like something he'd look to explore - especially in that the Earwan drive for immortality is almost as desperate as our own
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Yeah, I don't know. The only way I can square it is if perhaps The Mutilated were themselves deceived in regards to Shae's death. And while unlikely, I think it might be possible.
Or Shauriatas convinced them to help him upload his soul to the Ark. Or Compelled them to. Or Shauriatas used sorcery to make the Mutilated his new Ten-Wretch Sigil. Or any number of things
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Every time I think Bakker is going all Herbert, he doesn't. So I'm guessing Shae ain't "loaded" into the arch ( though, that would be fricken cool, for sure ) as that is a Herbert move ( ref: WorShip series ). I guess he kinda went Herbert with The Battle of Caraskand ( the whole thing about being driven to near death making them formidable, that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger, is a common theme in Herbert's stuff - The Fremen in Dune, The Dosadi Experiment ). That and the "philosophical" tidbits before each chapter rounds out the most I've seen of Herbert's influence in PON ( probably a thread somewhere discussion PON influences ).
Anyways, the long and short is I was hoping to see some Shae in TUC. Not because I like him, but TFS was so intriguing. So here's hoping the dude ain't gone.
Man after my own heart, Tao.
Sadly, Bakker was surprised by comparisons of Mimara's babies to Alia and Leto on the reddit AMA. I've long, long hoped that Mimara's child would be pre-born with the memories of Cu'jara Cinmoi and Nil'giccas
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