Kellhus and the Absolute

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rutiger

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« on: June 09, 2016, 11:30:27 pm »
The Warrior-Prophet seems to drop a big clue about the Absolute (and hence, the presumptive mission of the Dunyain), but I haven't heard any discussion of it.
Quote
"How does one learn innocence?  How does one teach ignorance? [...] They are the Absolute."
-ANONYMOUS, THE IMPROMPTA
Chapter 10, p 198 in my copy.  It's one of the quotes that opens the chapter.  For those who don't recognize the source:
Quote
And so began what Achamian came to call "The Imprompta," the nightly talks--almost sermons--Kellhus started giving the Men of the Tusk.
So do you think the quote is from Kellhus?  It would certainly help explain Bakker's claim that "there is a manner in which Serwe is the most important character".

Madness

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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 01:46:35 am »
I'm almost positive that's a quote from Kellhus.

Apparently, Bakker's also on mentioned his blog somewhere that certain pseudonyms in TAE are Kellhus... Lol - brain is grinding...

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Parsh

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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2016, 12:13:40 am »
Interesting find. It brings a few associations to mind.

First, a parallel to the Bible: Jesus says something to the effect that one has to become like a child (and what's more like a child than ignorant and innocent?) to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Second, though, is a question or two. The Dunyain are seeking the Absolute, right? So is this a bit of truth that Kellhus is laying on them, i.e. is this something the Dunyain believe or is it something that Kellhus wants the Inrithi to believe so that he can dominate them? Or both, but perhaps in different ways?

Okay, another association: Nietzsche, whose own project is really not so different from the Dunyain, in the sense that he's trying to understand the way that values are imposed on us from outside ourselves and shape us imperceptibly, and then to replace them with values of our own making (theoretically, anyway). He has this concept of three stages of man: the camel, the lion, and the child. The idea, briefly, is that the camel stage is this sort of unawakened pack animal stage: we <i>carry</i> the morality, the values that we've been indoctrinated with. The darkness that comes before us, if you will. The second stage is the lion, where we are aware of the imposition of values and we tear down these morals and values--in other words, recognizing them the way that the Dunyain do as essentially arbitrary, as human-created rather than god-given. And the third stage is the child, where the idea seems to be of a blank slate on which to create a new value system, one that serves the person who takes it on rather than the person serving the value system. That's a convoluted way of suggesting that the Dunyain might actually mean that what Kellhus says about ignorance and innocence, at least in a kind of convoluted sense.

But on another level, like the saying of Jesus referenced above, I suspect that its meaning has more to do with cultivating a child-like trust in Kellhus the authority figure.

Not that any of that helps to justify Serwe as the most important character. I have trouble wrapping my mind around that assertion.