Not quite sure if this has already been discussed here, I know I've seen somthing similar on other forums but I couldn't find it here. What is the significance of the way that Mimara's PoV is written? Has there been a conclusion as to why its written in a present tense, while the rest of the PoV's are written as if being recalled?
Also, can anyone point me to anywhere else where this kind of present tense is used throughout the series? I was pretty sure Yatwer's PoV (it was her right?) in the WLW was like this but I can't be sure.
Well, the examples you cite suggest that Mimara's POV reflects that of the White-Luck Warrior and Yatwer.
Mimara actually has very few POV's over the course of TAE in comparison to Achamian, Sorweel, or Esmenet. At times, I thought Bakker simply chose the first person view to facilitate the tension and action during such sequences, which works well, but I'd say that he's holding on to some cards still concerning Mimara.
For instance, in her very first POV in TJE, she comments that sometimes she imagines the World with its own living magic to it, which she compares and discredits to sorcery.
Just to add in something which may or may not be of interest/relevance.
Re-reading the end of WLW last night and during the scene with Gailan where she is looking into him and seeing his damnation etc, she sees a "fiery halo"above him, is Kellhus's ever described as fiery, she sees Gailans' in the context of his damnation.
I don't think I noticed that. How is, for example, is an Akka POV a recalled one?
Present tense (Mimara, WLW, Yatwer) vs. Past tense (Achamian - pretty much everyone else).
Well maybe I'm just not as literature savvy as some, but to me all the WLW sections are written in the past tense.
Take this for example:
"The room was little more than a cellar, even though it hung some four storeys above the alleyway. The plaster had sloughed from the walls, leaving bare stretches of cracked brick."
Isn't that past tense like everyone else? The only portions of the WLW that isn't like that is when he "sees" himself in the future. All of the discernible 'current' WLW scenes are past tense.
If not then could someone explain that more fully.
It's the difference between "He walked into the room and grabbed his keys" (Past Tense) vs. "He walks into the room and grabs his keys." (Present Tense), Wilshire.
It's a technical distinction in writing - some authors just refute structural holds we condone and write however they want. Bakker is, pretty clearly, using it to distinguish something.
How about a more direct example of of it with the WLW. I understand the mechanics and that its meaningful (obviously, or i wouldnt have bothered askin) but i dont see it in the writing.
"He heard the people talking in the streets, voice piled upon voice, and he had difficulty sorting reasons form conclusions" -wlw 498
"Sometimes he gazed out the lone window..." -498
"He heard the horns call, realized what he had always known" -498
"He almost stepped upon it then thousand times" -498
Don't all those represent past tense? While Mimara's sections, every line is most obviously present tense
"She unties the laces of her jacket"
She unlaces her leather breeches"
"Motionless the scalpers gaze."
"Even Koll ... watches with licentious fury"
Though maybe I'm just cherry picking section, but at least to me the WLW seem decidedly not present, except, like I said above, when he's seeing the future rather than the current time.
Quote from: MadnessWell, the examples you cite suggest that Mimara's POV reflects that of the White-Luck Warrior and Yatwer.Mimara has relatively few POVs in TJE, until Cil Aujus. then she's the POV covering almost the entirety of that chapter (since Akka is unconscious for most of the battle).
Mimara actually has very few POV's over the course of TAE in comparison to Achamian, Sorweel, or Esmenet. At times, I thought Bakker simply chose the first person view to facilitate the tension and action during such sequences, which works well, but I'd say that he's holding on to some cards still concerning Mimara.
For instance, in her very first POV in TJE, she comments that sometimes she imagines the World with its own living magic to it, which she compares and discredits to sorcery.
In WLW here POVs outnumber Akka and everyone else, she's the primary viewpoint of the novel.
Well, lockesnow, I'm gonna go count words at some point. I feel like she feels very primary because she is new rather than actually having the most word count, or primary perspective.
Quote from: WilshireHow about a more direct example of of it with the WLW. I understand the mechanics and that its meaningful (obviously, or i wouldnt have bothered askin) but i dont see it in the writing.
"He heard the people talking in the streets, voice piled upon voice, and he had difficulty sorting reasons form conclusions" -wlw 498
"Sometimes he gazed out the lone window..." -498
"He heard the horns call, realized what he had always known" -498
"He almost stepped upon it then thousand times" -498
Don't all those represent past tense? While Mimara's sections, every line is most obviously present tense
"She unties the laces of her jacket"
She unlaces her leather breeches"
"Motionless the scalpers gaze."
"Even Koll ... watches with licentious fury"
Though maybe I'm just cherry picking section, but at least to me the WLW seem decidedly not present, except, like I said above, when he's seeing the future rather than the current time.
Interesting point, I think Bakker definitely has something going on with that, but I don't know what. I assume it's tied to her Judging Eye (the God judges/exists the present at all times?)
Maybe it has to do with the fact tha she has the JE? The JE resides outside of time according to Akka.
Wilshire and I had rehashed this in another thread but I was definitely mistaken. However, Mimara and Yatwer's perspectives are unequivocally present tense. Why is the Warrior's not? Why is Mimara's?
And AFAIR Esmi herself has never left Sumna before deciding to follow Akka.
Esmenet may not be as low caste as she thinks. Her mother was a witch, afterall--perhaps a very prominent or powerful witch--and dunyain persuasion could have led to Esmenet's path to Sumna and becoming a prostitute there being conditioned. It seems unlikely that her mother would not teach Esmenet, risks be damned, such knowledge has to be fiercely protected, highly secretive and valuable and naturally matrilineal, in not teaching her, her mother is not just protecting her, she is letting down her own mother and grandmother, she is risking the abandonment of two thousand years or more of ancestors all who passed the knowledge down mother to daughter mother to daughter.
And then there's the name which is the exact name of the wife of the prophet. Dunyain influence in her naming?
Actually, MG, the Last Scion, Celmomas' matrilineal line, etc, stands apart from the Dunyain. Because we can't seem to figure out how the Dunyain are actually the product of Celmomas' line... the Dunyain are the False Line of Anasurimbor (still Anasurimbor but not Celmomas' descendents as our best guess is that Ganrelka is Celmomas' brother, rather than son, making the Dunyain Anasurimbor Bastard, Celmomas' Nephew, not one of his "seed.")
Actually, MG, the Last Scion, Celmomas' matrilineal line, etc, stands apart from the Dunyain. Because we can't seem to figure out how the Dunyain are actually the product of Celmomas' line... the Dunyain are the False Line of Anasurimbor (still Anasurimbor but not Celmomas' descendents as our best guess is that Ganrelka is Celmomas' brother, rather than son, making the Dunyain Anasurimbor Bastard, Celmomas' Nephew, not one of his "seed.")
Simple really. Celmomas was boning Ganrelka's missus whilst Seswatha was boning Celmomas's.
Actually, MG, the Last Scion, Celmomas' matrilineal line, etc, stands apart from the Dunyain. Because we can't seem to figure out how the Dunyain are actually the product of Celmomas' line... the Dunyain are the False Line of Anasurimbor (still Anasurimbor but not Celmomas' descendents as our best guess is that Ganrelka is Celmomas' brother, rather than son, making the Dunyain Anasurimbor Bastard, Celmomas' Nephew, not one of his "seed.")
Simple really. Celmomas was boning Ganrelka's missus whilst Seswatha was boning Celmomas's.
Actually, MG, the Last Scion, Celmomas' matrilineal line, etc, stands apart from the Dunyain. Because we can't seem to figure out how the Dunyain are actually the product of Celmomas' line... the Dunyain are the False Line of Anasurimbor (still Anasurimbor but not Celmomas' descendents as our best guess is that Ganrelka is Celmomas' brother, rather than son, making the Dunyain Anasurimbor Bastard, Celmomas' Nephew, not one of his "seed.")
Simple really. Celmomas was boning Ganrelka's missus whilst Seswatha was boning Celmomas's.
if the map case were open, the parchment would have been destroyed from two millenium of deterioration at the hands of the elements.
Ganrelka is also older than Nau Cayuti, and was born only fourteen years after Celmomas, iirc. also iirc, Nau Cayuti was born when Celmomas was in his forties.
Invoking "magic!" here is pretty legitimate, especially considering Celmomas intrusted the map to Seswatha. A simple mundane protection as lame as a seal would not be sufficient to someone of his caliber.if the map case were open, the parchment would have been destroyed from two millenium of deterioration at the hands of the elements.
Not necessarily. It's in a library that was run by sorcerers and is surrounded by enchantments. Also, the seal is broken not the map case and again, it's probably enchanted.
I made that same mistake. Older brother :PGanrelka is also older than Nau Cayuti, and was born only fourteen years after Celmomas, iirc. also iirc, Nau Cayuti was born when Celmomas was in his forties.
Sorry, I meant to say Ganrelka is the older brother.
Which means Celmomas would have been 15 when Ganrelka was born and 30 when Nau-Cayuti was born. Having a legitimate child at 15 does seem unlikely, but its possible.If this was mundane medieval era where the average lifespan wasnt particularly long then I would agree, but its not. We have lots of instances of people living well into their 80's and far beyond. There probably wasn't a huge press to have offspring at such a young age. Like you said, its possible, but I doubt it.
Note that Nau-Cayuti was born of Celmomas' favourite wife, Sharal.Very important. This points to either polygamous marriages or multiple mistresses, and if the High King has them, then you know others have them as well.
There's also the other Anasurimbor line (Mygella and Nimeric) - but Aorsi fell in 2136. (Mimara could potentially be a scion of that line too.)There are still so many questions, and I would not be surprised if a date got messed up here and there. Its probably difficult to sort through a timeline of 4000+ Earwa years that was developed over 18+ years of Bakker's life.
Alternatively, Scott just screwed the dates up a bit and it escaped editing.
- The important thing about Yatwer's Chorae is the pouch :P.
Symmetry, you know, like Fathers, like Sons.History repeats. If Kellhus fails to rise above the before/after paradigm then he is doomed like all the rest to forever repeat history.
Ptsatma comments that Maitha and Kellhus are aware of her, and they collect secret knowledge as par for the course. so i thought that it was all a pantomime for Sorweel benefit, cause Kellhus was aware of what was happening. after all didn't he pick the slave that that turned out to be the catalyst for Sorweels "conversion" to Yatwer?
Weird that the Dunyains give him a slave who happens to be a complete devotee to Yatwer, then he gets shipped off somewhere. Although Serwe might be kept in the dark in the way that Maitha claims he was kept in the dark.
Yatwer/Nonmen might be an important match for something...
Yeah. What Wilshire wrote.
Well, the Chorae is important for the pouch's concealing. Maybe that's a part of the Warrior's visions we don't see, if after he stabs Kellhus someone Chorae's Kellhus, Cnaiur-style. Maybe even, Moenghus the Younger. Symmetry, you know, like Fathers, like Sons.
Yeah. What Wilshire wrote.
Well, the Chorae is important for the pouch's concealing. Maybe that's a part of the Warrior's visions we don't see, if after he stabs Kellhus someone Chorae's Kellhus, Cnaiur-style. Maybe even, Moenghus the Younger. Symmetry, you know, like Fathers, like Sons.
Amazing! So Young Moe choraes Kellhus *after* someone else stabs him. We're lead to believe that it's going to be the WLW, but it would be more *symmetrical* if it was one of Kellhus' kids! Maybe Kayutas has a god hiding the sedition in his face. But if I have to bet on any of the Anasurimbor's killing Kellhus, it's Kelmomas.
Lol - nerdanel any way you like but to be clear I intended to draw an analogy between Moenghus the Elder/Cnaiur and Kellhus/Moenghus the Younger.
Lol - nerdanel any way you like but to be clear I intended to draw an analogy between Moenghus the Elder/Cnaiur and Kellhus/Moenghus the Younger.
I don't suspect Young Moe, he seems to sold on the Purpose! I think Kellhus would have taken extra special care to condition him...
Lol - Serwe is apparently one of the most important characters to the series. It is known. But how, why? These are the questions that torment me in my sleep. Why would Bakker, of all people, prize ignorance?!Need answers.
I'm starting to wonder if we take tangenting too far. Are we running mad with the lack of many participants keeping us to task?Most definitely yes. MG certainly isn't helping. He's got some of the craziest ideas out here. Where are those who are sober! Answer, like opium...
I'm fairly certain that Moenghus the Younger has read the Compendium because then he would understand his true heritage and that his whole life is a lie.
Where are those who are sober! Answer, like opium...
Think it is to look more like a non woman.
Iirc, she also sees her head shaved when she sees her reflection in water with JE open - then shaves it a chapter or two later.
She sees herself with short hair and heavily pregnant in WLW ch6, just after first learning that she is pregnant. The JE seems to transcend time.
She sees herself with short hair and heavily pregnant in WLW ch6, just after first learning that she is pregnant. The JE seems to transcend time.
That is troublesome to me. Might it be that the damnation that it apparently sees is the subjects end-of-life damnation. The sum of all the decision they have made and what they will make. So for example, akka is damned as viewed by TJE, but he may not yet have committed the act/acts that got him to that point.
Ha, I just thought.
If Mimarra sees Kellhus is damned then he will know what she sees and switch sides?
It would freak him out if he believes his own shtick - could he rationalize that, I wonder?
Yeah, I'm just saying if the JE sees him, he only has to look into Mimara's face to see the truth via his super-dunyain powers.
Perhaps she already has and he deleted her memories.
Ah but we don't know Sorweels face truly was. From Sorweels PoV it was hidden, Kellhus had no visible reaction but he's talking to a Dunyain and Dunyain are good actors :) It would not just be Sorweels face which would need to be masked either, if you remember from earlier Kellhus PoV he can detect shortness of breath and even increased heartbeats. So literally Sorweel would need the full shabang from Yatwer.
Not to say this isn't the case, I personally can't make up my mind. If they can hide stuff from Kellhus that would make me pissed. I think he needs to be totally infallible and really believeing he can save mankind until the last moment when we get a big reveal related to TSTSNBM.
Mimara seems like a walking IF and i expect her to meet Kellhus at some point. She may damn him? :(
@SilentRoamer - Too true, I'm also thinking about what Kellhus said to his dad, that Moenghus detected the skin spies through voice.
@ Monstar - Why do you write "Kallus" instead of "Khellus"? I don't get it! :P
@SilentRoamer - Too true, I'm also thinking about what Kellhus said to his dad, that Moenghus detected the skin spies through voice.
@ Monstar - Why do you write "Kallus" instead of "Khellus"? I don't get it! :P
MG, why do you write "Kellhus" and "Khellus"? I don't get it!
@SilentRoamer - Too true, I'm also thinking about what Kellhus said to his dad, that Moenghus detected the skin spies through voice.
@ Monstar - Why do you write "Kallus" instead of "Khellus"? I don't get it! :P
MG, why do you write "Kellhus" and "Khellus"? I don't get it! ;)
Monstar, could Sorweel be Bakker's Red Viper?
I don't know I just remembered that way, Ill change over now!@SilentRoamer - Too true, I'm also thinking about what Kellhus said to his dad, that Moenghus detected the skin spies through voice.
@ Monstar - Why do you write "Kallus" instead of "Khellus"? I don't get it! :P
MG, why do you write "Kellhus" and "Khellus"? I don't get it! ;)
Monstar, could Sorweel be Bakker's Red Viper?
I don't know I just remembered that way, Ill change over now!@SilentRoamer - Too true, I'm also thinking about what Kellhus said to his dad, that Moenghus detected the skin spies through voice.
@ Monstar - Why do you write "Kallus" instead of "Khellus"? I don't get it! :P
MG, why do you write "Kellhus" and "Khellus"? I don't get it! ;)
Monstar, could Sorweel be Bakker's Red Viper?
She sees herself with short hair and heavily pregnant in WLW ch6, just after first learning that she is pregnant. The JE seems to transcend time.
That is troublesome to me. Might it be that the damnation that it apparently sees is the subjects end-of-life damnation. The sum of all the decision they have made and what they will make. So for example, akka is damned as viewed by TJE, but he may not yet have committed the act/acts that got him to that point.
Imo, the JE shows how a soul will end up in the outside based on temporal projections of current causal flow (i.e. fate). My reasoning is based on when she tells Galian "it's not too late".
2. the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time.
The Emperical Priority Principle (sometimes referred to as the Principle of Before and After) asserts that within the circle of the world, what comes before determines what comes after without exception. The Rational Priority Principle asserts that Logos, or Reason, lies outside the circle of the world (though only in a formal and not an ontological sense). The Epistemological Principle asserts that knowing what comes before (via the Logos) yields "control" of what comes after.(my bold)
I've noted this before, Larry. Akka is very likely damned for a lot more than just sorcery, if that is your meaning.
Also, Kellhus tries to pull the "I can save you" routine on Aurang in TTT and instantly realizes that Aurang knows he can't do that.
I'm not sure, do you think Kellhusian Inrithism is geared towards actually helping people avoid damnation by changing cultural attitudes to the mysterious 'absolute morality', or that a remission from a Prophet or a change in scripture would affect individuals' fate/change the absolute morality?
Imo, the JE shows how a soul will end up in the outside based on temporal projections of current causal flow (i.e. fate). My reasoning is based on when she tells Galian "it's not too late".
Maybe. If such a thing is possible, and he knows a way. Though what Kellhus would do once he became a God, I have no idea. When you're a passionless self moving soul, what moves you?
And...then what? A God that was truly Dunyain would be an absent God.
i wager the pointlessness of being god is moot to kellhus--he's driven by his conditioning to dominate circumstances whatever they areLike a dog chasing its tail. If it ever catches it, it wouldn't know what to do with it. The Mission is to become Absolute. Not sure if the Dunyain bother discussing what would happen after... Its like beating a game, alls thats left to do is play it again from the start, maybe on a harder difficulty, or play another one altogether.
Anyone think its likely that Mimara's child will end up being like a certain child from Dune who was exposed to spice in the womb?
Nah, that's Kelmomas once he takes Maithanet's place and becomes known as the Toddler Shriah. That may even be the name of the third series, The Toddler Shriah.I know you were joking, but on reflection, everything but the title is shockingly plausible.
Anyone think its likely that Mimara's child will end up being like a certain child from Dune who was exposed to spice in the womb?
Some Dune spoilers for this speculation:(click to show/hide)
Esmenet's daughter was never far from her thoughts. It was strange the way anything, even the most trivial happenstance, could summon memories of her. This time it was Achamian and his curious habit of sniffing each prune before taking it between his teeth.
Once her daughter had sniffed an apple at the market. It was a breathless memory, wan, as though rinsed of colour by the horrific fact of her death. An adorable little girl, bright beneath the shadows of passersby, with straight black hair, a chubby-tender face, and eyes like peretual hope.
"Mama, it smells like..." she had said, hooking her voice as insight failed her, "it smells like water and flowers." She flashed her mother a triumphant smile.
Esmenet looked up at the sour vendor, who nodded at the entwined serpents tattoed on the back of her left hand. The message was clear: I don't sell to your kind.
"That's funny, my sweet. It smells overpriced to me."
"But, Mama ..." her darling had said.
Esmenet blinked the tears from her eyes. Achamian was speaking to her.
That relies on Kellhus having wiped her memory of the event, or for Mimara to have repressed it herself (which I find unlikely). Since Mimara doesn't recall ever coupling with Kellhus.
That said if Kellhus wanted even more progeny there's no more likely womb to quicken than Mimara's. Her mother was compatible, so there's probably a decent chance she is too.
Esmenet could never know. She'd never forgive that. Even for him.
Then, in the empty interval between breaths, the Judging Eye opens. For a time she gazes in stupefaction, then she weeps at the transformation. Her hair cropped penitent short. Her clothing fine, but with the smell of borrowed things. Her belly low and heavy with child … And a halo about her head, bright and silver and so very holy. The encircling waters darken for its glow. She convulses about breathless sobs, falls clutching her knees for anguish … For she sees that she is good—and this she cannot bear.
And he seemed with otherworldly light, haloes like golden discs shining about his hands. She could see him!
Somewhere distant, almost too far to touch, men cried out. Martemus watched the Prophet turn his head, reach back witha golden-haloed hand, and seize a flying arm, which bore a fist, which gripped a long and silvery knife.
OK, so I came across this passage while in another discussion and would like to know your guys thoughts.QuoteThen, in the empty interval between breaths, the Judging Eye opens. For a time she gazes in stupefaction, then she weeps at the transformation. Her hair cropped penitent short. Her clothing fine, but with the smell of borrowed things. Her belly low and heavy with child … And a halo about her head, bright and silver and so very holy. The encircling waters darken for its glow. She convulses about breathless sobs, falls clutching her knees for anguish … For she sees that she is good—and this she cannot bear.
OK, we've deduced through Kellhus and Serwe that when halo's are seen it because of the belief that one is holy. Kellhus doesn't see his own halo's til much later when he finally believes that he is, or crazy, take a pick. Anyway, when Mimara see her reflection and she bears a halo, its the Judging Eye/God(?) looking at her. Why is she holy? When so much has been stated that women's spiritual value is less and not worthy, we see a direct contradiction of that through the Judging Eye. Its a theme I keep going back to, and its like no matter how much someone convinces me otherwise, I believe women to be most important to this story, in the end.
Also,QuoteAnd he seemed with otherworldly light, haloes like golden discs shining about his hands. She could see him!QuoteSomewhere distant, almost too far to touch, men cried out. Martemus watched the Prophet turn his head, reach back witha golden-haloed hand, and seize a flying arm, which bore a fist, which gripped a long and silvery knife.
There are just two examples, but, everytime Kellhus's halo are mentioned they are gold. These are seen through the eyes of humans. When we see Mimara's through the Judging Eye hers are silver. I'd love to see Kellhus through the Judging eye, but, is this a clue that Kellhus's haloes are false? Please, anything you guys could add would be greatly appreciated.
OK, so I came across this passage while in another discussion and would like to know your guys thoughts.QuoteThen, in the empty interval between breaths, the Judging Eye opens. For a time she gazes in stupefaction, then she weeps at the transformation. Her hair cropped penitent short. Her clothing fine, but with the smell of borrowed things. Her belly low and heavy with child … And a halo about her head, bright and silver and so very holy. The encircling waters darken for its glow. She convulses about breathless sobs, falls clutching her knees for anguish … For she sees that she is good—and this she cannot bear.
OK, we've deduced through Kellhus and Serwe that when halo's are seen it because of the belief that one is holy. Kellhus doesn't see his own halo's til much later when he finally believes that he is, or crazy, take a pick. Anyway, when Mimara see her reflection and she bears a halo, its the Judging Eye/God(?) looking at her. Why is she holy? When so much has been stated that women's spiritual value is less and not worthy, we see a direct contradiction of that through the Judging Eye. Its a theme I keep going back to, and its like no matter how much someone convinces me otherwise, I believe women to be most important to this story, in the end.
Also,QuoteAnd he seemed with otherworldly light, haloes like golden discs shining about his hands. She could see him!QuoteSomewhere distant, almost too far to touch, men cried out. Martemus watched the Prophet turn his head, reach back witha golden-haloed hand, and seize a flying arm, which bore a fist, which gripped a long and silvery knife.
There are just two examples, but, everytime Kellhus's halo are mentioned they are gold. These are seen through the eyes of humans. When we see Mimara's through the Judging Eye hers are silver. I'd love to see Kellhus through the Judging eye, but, is this a clue that Kellhus's haloes are false? Please, anything you guys could add would be greatly appreciated.
OK, so I came across this passage while in another discussion and would like to know your guys thoughts.QuoteThen, in the empty interval between breaths, the Judging Eye opens. For a time she gazes in stupefaction, then she weeps at the transformation. Her hair cropped penitent short. Her clothing fine, but with the smell of borrowed things. Her belly low and heavy with child … And a halo about her head, bright and silver and so very holy. The encircling waters darken for its glow. She convulses about breathless sobs, falls clutching her knees for anguish … For she sees that she is good—and this she cannot bear.
OK, we've deduced through Kellhus and Serwe that when halo's are seen it because of the belief that one is holy. Kellhus doesn't see his own halo's til much later when he finally believes that he is, or crazy, take a pick. Anyway, when Mimara see her reflection and she bears a halo, its the Judging Eye/God(?) looking at her. Why is she holy? When so much has been stated that women's spiritual value is less and not worthy, we see a direct contradiction of that through the Judging Eye. Its a theme I keep going back to, and its like no matter how much someone convinces me otherwise, I believe women to be most important to this story, in the end.
Also,QuoteAnd he seemed with otherworldly light, haloes like golden discs shining about his hands. She could see him!QuoteSomewhere distant, almost too far to touch, men cried out. Martemus watched the Prophet turn his head, reach back witha golden-haloed hand, and seize a flying arm, which bore a fist, which gripped a long and silvery knife.
There are just two examples, but, everytime Kellhus's halo are mentioned they are gold. These are seen through the eyes of humans. When we see Mimara's through the Judging Eye hers are silver. I'd love to see Kellhus through the Judging eye, but, is this a clue that Kellhus's haloes are false? Please, anything you guys could add would be greatly appreciated.
i can't remember if we covered this--maybe Mimara's baby is Kellhus' child? she could be deceived about this since a dunyain baby reportedly takes more than 9 months to hatch and Kellhus could have whelmed her
Personally, I always took all this talk of 'halos' as just extra craziness. Serwe was never the sanest person. She and Martemus could easily have allowed their reverence for Kellhus to literally cloud their sight. But it is weird that they both see the same thing. Kellhus admitting that he could also see halos around his hands, is weird too, unless he's as crazy as Moe said he is. A crazy/delusional full-blooded Dunyain, Yatwer preserve us :)
...a watcher watched conundrum independent of looker and looked a...
I believe she no longer wants to learn, can't remember where about it is stated, in WLW somewhere i suspect.I am in the midst of re-reading WLW and in Chapter 6 she indicates not wanting to learn sorcery in the context of trying to figure out who is the father of her baby. (p.183, first edition overlook press).